how to i.d guns by serial numbers?

2843 Views 19 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Anonymous, Nov 12, 2003

tonyb

Discussion Starter · Oct 31, 2003

I have been trying to i.d my guns on the internet it's very confusing and basically beyond my ability. I and I am wondering what would be the best way to go about it. I have a westernfield m550a,the pump action rattles like crazy I was wondering is this normal or should i try to fix it. I as far as the i.d. I just like to know " all the facts " I emailed a locale person and his remark was rather pissy to say the least. My main concern is this argentine mauser 7.65x ??? I have shells for it and have shot it it shot high to the left that could just be me. But the rim of the cartrige had a uniform ring like it doesn't fit the chamber correctly by what I have read about this the makers of these made quite a few different type of guns with corresponding ammo by cartridge length and rifling depth and turn per m.m. or what ever the 7m.m. is common but all the other stuff is confusing. Anyway should I have a gunsmith help me? I have norma 7.65x 54 but im not positive on the 54 and what it means. sorry for rambling on but I jus t want to be sure bcuz one ammo dealer swore that I needed 7x57 that was a mistake after I shot 3 or 4 rounds and literaly saw the round do barrel rolls in all wierd ways I realized that this guy was wrong. Any help on positive I.D. sources would be greatly appreciated the manufacturer sites on the web have not helped . thanks

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MarlandS

· #2 · Oct 31, 2003

Let's see, the 550a, was made by Mossberg predominantly (some were Nobles according to sources) and they will rattle especially after they are broken in, as long as it doesn't bind when pumping or the bolt doesn't rattle when closed I wouldn't worry about it too much.

On the mauser , Argentina used a 7.65x53 , a 7.65x54 and I believe another round similarly sized, you'll have to determine which mauser action it's built on to guesstimate age and therefore caliber. your best bet would be to go to www.cruffler.com i think those boys can help you out.

oh and the second number is the case length but then there's the "R" after that sometimes that means rimmed..

but I only know shotguns......

dks

· #3 · Oct 31, 2003

statement: i HAVE NEVER BEEN TO ANY OF THESE FORUMS MYSELF BUT HAVE ONLY HEARD RUMOURS ABOUT THEM FROM OTHER LESS LOYAL TO SGW PEOPLE:

You might want to try:
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/index.php?s=a645a422db63e05a5ba804706969af86

http://pub113.ezboard.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums

http://***********/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=1

ALLEGEDLY, these forums might be able to help you.
Post to all and see what happens.

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 1, 2003

thank you I will give it a try

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 1, 2003

trhanks marlands,but crufflers wants a large stipend to provide services I'M not that curious, I'll try a locale gun shop first...

kildux

· #6 · Nov 1, 2003

The ring the cartridge is a sign of high pressure, or faulty ammunition. To check the pressure fire the gun and then cock it without moving the bolt if possible. Then try to move the bolt. If it is hard to turn then it is probably high pressure if not it is the ammo. The 54 in 7.62X54 mean the brass is 54millimeters long. The 7.62 means the bullet is 7.62 millimeters in diameter. Your mauser is more than likely a 7.65X53. This is a common caliber in the spanish mausers. If you posted a picture I could tell you what kind and probably what caliber it is. I could at least narrow it down to one or two calibers.

MarlandS

· #7 · Nov 1, 2003

Tony did you try the Surplus Firearms, Argentina, forum on their message board?

Check this link out.. http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falkl ... htm#mauser

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 1, 2003

OK mr kildux I going to down load a picture of my gun that I found on the internet, my gun has been modified, when I get the picture of my gun on disc I will send it in.But i'm not sure how to get my file to this page to send it, its in my picture file but I can't move it into a proper file to send???? help please.[/img]

MarlandS

· #9 · Nov 1, 2003

Tony, you can upload from your machine to the album (linked above)

I'd love to see Kildux identify the caliber of a military mauser from looking at a picture....

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 1, 2003

Hey you and me both ?? :shock:

kildux

· #11 · Nov 1, 2003

Dear Tonyb, I posted a picture of a mauser under misc. in the alblums section. Does the receiver of this gun look anything like yours? Also, if the gun was used in argentina than I am just about positive that it is a 7.65X53mm. You might try to post a picture of the receiver. That would tell me alot.

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 1, 2003

kildux said:
Dear Tonyb, I posted a picture of a mauser under misc. in the alblums section. Does the receiver of this gun look anything like yours? Also, if the gun was used in argentina than I am just about positive that it is a 7.65X53mm. You might try to post a picture of the receiver. That would tell me alot.

tonyb says thanks yes that looks like my gun, i will have to double check my ammo, the 53 means case length correct? any way i will get some pics of my gun and dload them asap, thanks again..

Alonzo Tubbs

· #13 · Nov 1, 2003

Kildux is right about the caliber, 7.65 x 53. Those are pretty good shooting old rifles and about the ballistic equal of the more moderm .308. I'd like to ask about the fired cases. Does it look as though it has swollen? If so, the chamber may be a little too large. This would have been considered ok or even desirable for a military rifle of that period; safe enough for combat but not easily put out of commision by miserable field conditions. The old Mark III SMLE's often were made with large chambers for just that reason. Good luck with it.

'Lonzo

kildux

· #14 · Nov 1, 2003

Alonzo Tubbs compared the 7.65X53 to the 308 and in fact they are pretty close to the same thing. The 308 being 7.62X51. By the way your mauser is a model 1891. Or it could be a Turkish model 1890.

MarlandS

· #15 · Nov 2, 2003

Tony , an FYI for you ,the actual measurement of the cartridge is 7.65x53.5 Some folks round it down to 53 some up to 54. Most surplus ammo will be marked 7.65 Argentine (Mauser)

The Norma Ammo you have is the correct ammo for it unless the rifle has been rechambered. Possible but doubtful...

It is the M91 as Kildux said , which means it's the small ring diameter barrel (handy to know when working on it)

When buying surplus ammo, pay attention to it, Argentina had a machine gun that fired this round and it's possible the rounds were hotter for the machine gun.

Here's where it gets good , if the gun is marked LOEWE it is pre 1899 and if marked DWM it came from about the best mauser plant in Germany and is post 1899, which is sort of important .
The M91 Argentines were all made in Germany, so the quality is good or better.

Oh and we charge double for rifle questions on the shotgun forum..

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 2, 2003

thanks marlands it is a MAUSER MODELO ARGENTINO 1891. MANUFACTURA LOEWE BERLIN. iT HAS SOME KIND OF CREST THAT LOOKS LIKE (MB) and two hands shaking it has a what looks like some one ssn engraved on it. And someone must of tryed to sporterize it they cut the stock and bent the bolt handle, I visited that site you mentioned it had a picture of the gun. From the reshearch Ive done the one made in aregentina had the markings ground of by the guerillas or something can't remember why something to do with the army's identification. By the way thanks for the non shotgun related help, I can't find a site as helpful as this one for rifles, maybe we should branch out and make one??

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 2, 2003

kildux said:
The ring the cartridge is a sign of high pressure, or faulty ammunition. To check the pressure fire the gun and then cock it without moving the bolt if possible. Then try to move the bolt. If it is hard to turn then it is probably high pressure if not it is the ammo. The 54 in 7.62X54 mean the brass is 54millimeters long. The 7.62 means the bullet is 7.62 millimeters in diameter. Your mauser is more than likely a 7.65X53. This is a common caliber in the spanish mausers. If you posted a picture I could tell you what kind and probably what caliber it is. I could at least narrow it down to one or two calibers.

thanx kildux i think we nailed this one this gun will hunt now i need to see what she'll do on accuracy and range. You guys rock thanx for all the info.

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #18 · Nov 4, 2003

thanks kildux thats the one.I found a exact match to mine which has been modified, that i will try to down load it, it was on a auction site. they priced it for $150.00 what got me going on this was a guy told me it was a common piece and he could get them for 40 bucks anytime he seemed interested and I figured he was just trying to get me to sell . what do yawl think??? :?:

tonyb

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 5, 2003

well if I didn't say it b-4 thanks for all that help everybody!!! I deleted some mail I just wanted to see if this forum was still open. As for my other question can the manufacturer's sites I.D. Guns by serial numbers I was just curious on the age of my m550a 12 ga.CUZ it's probably older than me. Anywho it's gone straight to winter in my neck-o-the woods can't wait to go chase some feathered critters out of the bush

Hopefully a couple of furri little buggers too. :lol:

G

· #20 · Nov 12, 2003

you have a fun gun picked mine up at a show here in cail for 60 it is my first rifel and i love it but finding ammo localy is imposible for me hope you have as much fun shooting it as i have.

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