[Guest]

I consider myself very new to shotgun world and I have only shot two rounds of trap so far. Both times were fun but I got truly terrible scores: 9 out 25 and 5 out of 25.
I think I was not aiming, sorry-pointing, the gun correclty. When I sight down the barrel should the two beads be one on top of the other to form a figure "8", or should they line up to form as just one bead?
Also most people said do not bend your neck. I found I have to bend my neck so that my cheek is firm on the comb and my eye aligns with the two beads.
From where I live, Alameda county, CA, there is no gunsmith who can do stock fitting, so I have no idea if the gun fits me or not. I did the simple close eye open eye test and the two beads seem to be on top on another. Please help.

 

[Kanada]

well i line them up so it looks like one bead, it means your looking straight down the barrel

 

[Ulysses]

Alex,

I'm not trying to be a wiseass, but the important thing is where the gun shoots when you have the beads lined up the way YOU like to line them up. Have you put up a paper target and checked to see where the gun shoots with the choke and load you use when you line the beads up the way that's most comfortable for you? If not, that is the next thing you should do.

When you are actually shooting targets, you shouldn't even be aware of how the beads line up. The beads are just to tell you if you are cheeking the gun the same way each time you mount it. Check this alignment BEFORE you shoot, not during the shot.

 

[AFGunner]

This is instruction that I received at the range here so take it for what it is worth.
When shooting trap you should line up the beads so that you see a figure eight with the front bead on top. This means that your gun will shoot slightly high and lets you lead the bird without covering it.
For skeet you want a flat shooting gun so you cover the front bead with the rear and then lead the target.
I have found that the best advice for me has been the tagline of one of our fellow forum members "Head on the stock, Eye on the Rock". I never look at the sights anymore. I concentrate on keeping my eye on the target and have become a consistent 23-24 shooter at skeet. I have even broken 25 with a friends Browning with no bead at all. Find what works for you and enjoy shooting. ---AFG

 

[Jeff23]

Hi Alex--

Your original post is really addressing the issue of fit more than of sight alignment. Fit can be crucial, especially in serious clay shooting.

My experience with gun fitters is that their locations are sometimes unknown to the average shooter (not enough "average shooters" get their gun's fit looked at), so that even if you asked around your club and nobody knew of one, there might be a fitter nearby. I'm not really familiar with Cali geography, but try this link:

http://www.shotgunsports.com/stocks.htm

It may give you a few ideas. An alternative is to call or visit every competent gunsmith in the area-- they may know if there's a fitter in an adjacent county or one that you've missed in Alameda. Don't give up too quickly.

Also, welcome to Shotgunworld! We hope you'll register and stick around, also that you'll let us know how it's all going. We all encounter obstacles in out shotgunning careers, and these forums are absolutely the best for surmounting those obstacles!

Jeff23

 

[12GA guy]

I find that if you swing the gun up to your sholder, and you are looking down the barrel, without having to make a bunch of adjustments, your gun fits! If you find you are craning your neck, or moving your head up and down, to line up the beads, you probably need some stock adjustments.

I use the figure 8 shooting trap, and find for my shooting it works good. It helps on busting a rising target, as the barrel is pointing a little high.

You don't mention whether you have a field gun or a trap gun, and they are quite a bit different in design. You can make some adjustments yourself, thicker/thinner recoil pad, shims, weight, etc. Ask one of the fellows at the gun club who appears to have some experience, if he can watch you mount your gun, and see if there is any fit problems he may notice.

Don't be too hard on yourself, if you are shooting lower scores, than you would like. It does take practice to get good. The more you shoot the better you will get. Things like learning where to hold the muzzle, before calling for the bird at each station, foot positioning, at each station, lead distance on the different angles the bird will be thrown, etc. will come to you. Observe the good shooters. Maybe a lesson or two to help learn the basics would be a help. I probably fired at least 500 shells, before I got my first 25 straight, so hang in there!

 

[Guest]

Hi 12GA guy and everyone who helped,
I should have given more detail of my two trap shoots. I was using a Winchester Supreme Select Sporting 30" O/U. I don't know if the gun is made for trap or just a general sporting gun. On my first trap shoot I was using only the upper barrel with modified choke, 1 oz #8 2 3/4 dr. load. My score was 9 out of 25. Then on my second trap shoot someone suggested to me that because I was new to trap I should use the IC choke to have wider pattern and therefore better chance of hitting birds. So I used only the lower barrel with IC choke same load. My score was terrible, 5 out 25. Afterward, I was talking the range master about my poor performance and he said most people shoot trap with mod., IM, or full choke. IC just spread the pattern too thin to have any affect after 35 yards or so. I am new and inexperienced so any help is truly appreciated. One more thing, just about everyone suggested to do a pattern test. The one and only range nearby has only one position for patterning and it is 30 yard. How do you do a patterning test, i.e., on the shooting bench or standing up, stationary or swing into the target, one shot per paper or mutli shots per paper, and etc. Thank you in advance for your advice.

 

[Rollin Oswald]

Alex;

You, like most of us in the past, are struggling with the introduction to competition-type shooting disciplines.

Your gun has what is commonly referred to as a "field" stock. That indicates the comb is rising from the top of the recoil pad (relative to the barrel) to the grip. Field stocks are different from most trap stocks that have the top surface of the stock (comb) that is parallel with the barrel. Skeet shooters on the other hand, often prefer a stock designed like yours as do even more sporting clays shooters.

You are delving into the topic of stock fitting. The eye on a shotgun acts like the rear sight on a rifle. A figure-8 bead pattern usually results in the patterns going about 4" higher than the point of aim at 32 yards and helps adjust to or lead (rymes with speed) trap shooting's rising targets. Nearly all trap shooters want their guns to shoot a little high for that reason.

With a rising comb, where along its surface you place yur cheek will determine how high your gun shoots. Try this: Imagine a trap house in the distance with you stainding on station 3. Set up to shoot a target. Close your eyes and mount your gununloaded gun. Your chek pressure on the comb should be snug, neither hard or very light. That will help keep your head stationary during swings. (On a shotgun, your eye acts like the rear sight ona rifle. When it moves during a swing, you have unknowingly addjusted the sights on your gun, often with "lost" as the result.)

Your gun should be mounted with the top of the recoil pad even with the top of your shoulder.

When you open your eyes, you should be looking straight down the center of the rib with the beads ideally aligned in a figure-8 pattern. Repeat the exercise to confirm the results.

If the beads don't align using the above recommended cheek pressure and gun positioning, your gun could probably use alteration of one or more of its stock dimensions. Fortunately, all of them can be changed. For more about correct shooting form, stock fitting, and the options for changing stock dimensions, click on the url that follows. You won't be able to use PayPal to pay for a stock fitting guide if you want one until the domain or whatever gets its act together and again lets me access the site using a password that I've used for years. "vitrualave," the domain, apparently has a lot of unhappy customers who can't access their sites.
Rollin
http://stockfitting.virtualave.net

 

[JMCCOYB]

Alex, you have asked a few questions which I will try to assist you with. However, you must understand that in 'shotgunning' you will get all sorts of 'advice', some of it priceless and some of it not worth a snot (ie: 'shoot trap with an IC choke'). You've seen the results of that one--did he have a bet with you that he would beat you for that round? He won, wonder why?

First: You are shooting a Win Supreme Select Sporting. It is primarily designed for Sporting Clays, not Trap. However, do not let that bother you, with a little work on your part you can deliver very good scores with it on trap. Just wanted to clarify, it is not specifically designed for trap. A sporting clay gun is generally a teriffic gun.

Second: I assume you are shooting at 16 yards and shooting singles-right? I would use something like Mod/ImpMod or Full (if you really want to smoke 'em) However, smoking 'em will come along later, do not look for that now--you have some work to do. There are SOOOO many variables to master--and you can generally master only one at a time. Be patient! Right now you want to work on techinque--not smoke!

Third: A pattern test at 30 yards is OK. One shot per piece of paper. Remember, test with the same barrel for comparison. Test with the same ammo (brand, shot size etc) for comparison. Shoot from a bench if possible--what you are measuring is how much of the shot is within a 30" circle--so, in this case, shoot the shotgun like a rifle. Put this project on the bottom of your list--you've got lots of things more important to do first.

Fourth: Have you had the 'fit' of your gun checked by a competent stock fitter? Chances not--very few (if any new gunners ever do--what is fit?) I owned and shot shotguns for 15 or more years before I ever checked the 'fit'. How can you check it if you don't know what it is? Many gun retailers don't even know how to do it with any competence.

Fifth: Read Rollin Oswald. While I just got a print out of his program today and only skimmed it, I am interested. Check some other threads on this board where he has made comments--IMHO early indications are this guy knows what he is talking about.

Six: You spent a lot of $ on a fine shotgun. Now consider spending a little more on a couple of hours of instruction--trap instruction. Reason: to make sure you have a whole set of basics (stance, mount, lead, swing, etc) down pat. I'll bet you will make some changes(sucker bet) Probably the second most important to getting your shotgun 'fitted' to you.

Good luck and have fun. Don't let those scores bother you, you will see them jump up real quickly.

 

[Guest]

First of all let me say thank you from the bottom of my heart to all of you who answered my post and provided lot of great information. I wish I live in your state(s) where there are lots of ranges and great helpful shooters. In California people are not very liberal about gun/shooting. The range, Chabot Gun Club in Castro Valley, CA, is the only one within reasonable driving distance. On my first two trap shoots I tried to talked to other shooters and they seemed to give me the cool shoulder. I asked the range master about gun fitting and he said he didn't know any gunsmith around the area. I asked about instructional classes and he told me there was none available. I asked a couple of local gun shops about gun fitting and they didn't seem to know what gun fitting is. At best one of them said "gun fitting? you mean shortening the stock, right?" Of course I didn't take my gun to them. I have been shooting pistol, rifle for the past 25 years, only recently I took up shotgunning and I didn't realize there is so much to be "fitted". I was discouraged at first and just about ready to sell my brand new O/U and quit shotgunning. Fortunately, I ran into this forum and many helpful shooters offered their help and shared their experience, and that was what keep me from running away. Thank you all.

 

[Jeff23]

Alex--

Don't give up! I found one of the best gunsmiths I know by talking to a guy while I was playing golf (I hate to admit that on here, but I cannot tell a lie, I sometimes play golf). Anyway, this gunsmith is an eighty-year old man who was employed all his life at Marlin down in North Haven, not far from where I live. He does amazingly good work between his heart attacks, which he seems to shake off. He only takes in a few jobs at a time, and I've been one of the lucky customers.

If you really want to thank us, do it by registering and hanging out in the forums. You'll be able to help some new people and that's the best way to give back. Also, keep us posted on how your journey is going!

Best,

Jeff23

 

[Alex]

Hi Jeff23,
I have just registered and I will be sticking around this forum. I am trying out my third trap shoot tomorrow. I will be using IM choke on the lower barrel. I'll let you know how I do. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[Alex]

I did my third trap shoot yesterday. I got 11 out of 25. I know this is nothing to write home about. I learned something yesterday. My score went from 5 out 25 using IC choke to 11 out 25 using IM choke. My shoulder wasn't hurting at all and I only got a three or four face slaps. So I think I must have either gotten used to the recoil or my mount was correct. On some of those breaking shots I actually felt very confident. I was swinging very smoothly and leading the bird the right amount. And for those I missed I knew I was doing everything wrong i.e., pulling the trigger while slowing down the swing or stopping, looking at how the beads line up instead of the target, and shooting way too fast at the target. It amazing after just three rounds I began to understand a little more about trap shooting. I work six day a week, so I have to wait til Sunday to try another round. One more question: the birds fly left, straight away, and right. Is this random or in some sort of order? My trouble is I missed a lots of left flyers.

 

[Guest]

Sounds like you are well on your way.

The trap cycles back and forth continously, so the angle of the target comes at random. Don't even think about trying to outguess it. Just pick up the bird when it comes and shoot it.

Some trap shooters are not as friendly as shooters in the other clay sports. I do not really know why, but it is an observed fact. Maybe has its roots in the fact that in some areas trap is a gambling game.

My suggestion is to shoot 2 or 3 patterns, on seperate papers, at 30 yards just like you were shooting at the trap bird. Just to see where the shot pattern goes in relation to where you are aiming and to give youself a general idea of what you have in terms of spread to work with.

And don't keep score to tightly at first. It might be better to shoot fast and smooth for a while and just break 12 than to work out some way to break a few more at long range without shooting properly. (I know that from experience).

 

[clayshooter25/25]

For your first times of trap I don't think that's to bad of a score at all.

You should get some advise from a pro that is nice and willing to help you about gun fit and your stance.

Also practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice, practice, and practice .

 

[GRO]

Sounds like the Chabot Gun club could use a few lessons in MANNERS, FRIENDLINESS and ETIQUETTE or maybe they are just too WITHIN THEMSELVES and nothing will help. :x :x :x

I kinda get onna kick when some people think they are better then others and don't want to help others out. I better quit or I might say something that I will regret later.

You can come to WA where we treat everyone the same and are willing to part with whatever information we have.
George

 

[rocnerd]

Hey Alex,

Like you I am brand new and have only shot maybe 4-6 rounds of Trap. The first 25 birds went untouched by me. Let me tell you that was embarrasing. I quickly found out that I need to cover the target with my gun or forget it. I also found that I need to close one eye or I have no idea where the barrel is in relation to the target. I know that is taboo in shotgunning, but for trap I can't do it any other way. I went to a free clinic this past Sat at the nearby range and didn't hit a thing with both eyes open. With one closed it was little tiny bits of orange clay all over the place. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is the same as Clayshooter 25/25 Practice Practice, Practice. You'll get the feeling for your gun and where it needs to be to break the target. You already said you had some you felt confident about and that is what I'm talking about. There are times when I know I'm going to break the target. I assume that the more I practice the more this will happen. Good luck!

 

[starlifter]

Hi Alex,
I am also new to trap shooting. I also shoot at Chabot. I have found that if you go on the weekend, you are going to run into obsticles. If you can make it on a Monday morning, most of the big egos are somewhere else doing something else. On the Chabot website, there is a tab on the left for private lessons. Send them an email and see where it leads you. As far as fitting the gun, I will make a comparison to handgun shooting-almost anyone can squeez off good shots with a custom 1911 with a 1 1/2 lb pull. One must learn trigger control to shoot an 8-10 lb double action revolver.

As far as gunsmiths try:
Tabor Shooters Supply
(650) 589-0505
471 El Camino Real, San Bruno, CA 94066

Gunsmith demand far exceeds supply in the bay area. Go visit mid-week mid-day and the owner might talk face to face and give you useful info. Go on the weekend, take a number and use your 30 seconds wisely.

BTW there are also trap ranges on the penninsula, Tabor's can give you info on that.

 

[wb]

Hi Alex,
I am also new to trap shooting. I also shoot at Chabot. I have found that if you go on the weekend, you are going to run into obsticles. If you can make it on a Monday morning, most of the big egos are somewhere else doing something else. On the Chabot website, there is a tab on the left for private lessons. Send them an email and see where it leads you. As far as fitting the gun, I will make a comparison to handgun shooting-almost anyone can squeez off good shots with a custom 1911 with a 1 1/2 lb pull. One must learn trigger control to shoot an 8-10 lb double action revolver.

As far as gunsmiths try:
Tabor Shooters Supply
(650) 589-0505
471 El Camino Real, San Bruno, CA 94066

Gunsmith demand far exceeds supply in the bay area. Go visit mid-week mid-day and the owner might talk face to face and give you useful info. Go on the weekend, take a number and use your 30 seconds wisely.

BTW there are also trap ranges on the penninsula, Tabor's can give you info on that.

starlifter..................nice as the info is............ you do realize that this thread is six years old...............Don't you??? :mrgreen:

 

[starlifter]

Good point. I fell out of a car on the freeway when I was 5 years old, and sometimes the event presents itself in the lack of mindfulness in the time-space-continuum. Lucky to be alive I guess. Any way, Tabor's last day of bussines was Saturday. Cleaned up on .40, .454., and .460 ammo. any comments on these guys: http://www.gunstocksinc.com/web_pages/P ... Stocks.htm