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I mean they put an animal thorugh unecessary suffering, why should they be subject to that? The hunter would feel different if he was pursued with hounds and guns (SGW: I took your link down FKA Denden. If you want to defend your post then you do it here. Your not going to sling crap in the hopes of boosting your own forum) :D UP THE IRISH !Edited by: Shotgunworld at: 4/28/03 2:34:10 pm
 

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I'm lost and have no argument aka FKA Dendens prattled:"I mean they put an animal thorugh unecessary suffering, why should they be subject to that? The hunter would feel different if he was pursued with hounds and gun" That's all you can offer? and the rest of your associates can offer class envy and name calling? Bullocks! Ignorant Euro-babble I say.I guess the meat or vegetables that you eat all volunteer to die for your sustenance? Those plastic covered styrofoam trays of flesh just appear at the local shop nothing died for that to occur? Something HAS to die for you to live, end of story. How it dies is irrelevant. Whether someone smacks it in the head with a mallet, slits its throat, or puts a bullet into the animal the end result is exactly the same.....the difference is that a hunter respects and understands the quarry and does not take it for granted, counts it as a blessing to have taken the animal, and cherishes the food that comes from the death.Do not sully a site with your inability to carry on an argument.
 

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Hey FKA is that a public education that allowed you to espouse that prophetic statement? Wait, wait, wait, your 21 and still in school.....I get it now. Your just a meat puppet regurgitating the one-sided statements as provided. Good show mate, shows a complete inability to think for yourself. Edited by: Rick618 at: 4/27/03 7:55:03 pm
 

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Well it would seem they just want to find some people to come to there site. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.Edited by: john305 at: 4/27/03 7:54:35 pm
 

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The site is a football site and people just make certain statements that are to their liking.I do not think they are anti or pro hunt in any way. I assume, as john said they posted the link to that post to get people to their site, and it worked. Even I posted. The site is probably run by teenagers believe it or not. ITS NOT HOW WELL YOU SHOOT, ITS HOW MUCH NOISE YOUR GUN MAKES.
 

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Perhaps hes a veggie who doesn't use any animal products therefore your 'were does the meat you eat come from?' arguement is useless.You say it is the typical student arguement but its still a valid one. What are you reasons for hunting? Alls i ever hear from pro-hunters is the usual excuses of 'animals have to die in some way [which is kinda true so thats a decent arguement] and humans have always hunted [bollocks].
 

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Our reasons for hunting are fun of the sport, spending time with friends and family, and number one for the sake of the animals. Without management, animals would soon disappear one way or another. And I can tell you that hunting them is alot more humane than being wiped out by cars and disease. It may sound like a 3rd grade argument but it is true. I'm not saying that some supposed hunters that don't practice good clean kills shouldn't have their guns taken away form them. But until you can get up a valid argument and convince me that responsible hunters are cruel, don't post here.:hat
 

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>Without management, animals would soon disappear >one way or another.Yeah you are right. All animals will eventually become extinct one way or the other but thats just nature or evolution if you will. By shooting them you are just quikening their decline which i don't really see is a good thing. This also destroys the amount of 'meat' as the animal numbers decline as they are being killed and not reproducing to their full. Atleast with farms animals are breed so as when one is killed for their meat there is another one [or more] to take its place.I understand to sustain the way of living we have some animals need to be kept under control in terms of their numbers but why choose the animals you do? Do these really pose the biggest threat to our way of living?
 

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Yes, it is evolution for all animals to disappear some day but by hunting animals we can keep them around longer. If you haven't noticed it doesn't take long for a species to become overly populated. This in turn will cause disease, car wrecks and eventually the disappearence of the animal. If the whitetailed deer would not have been hunted in the midwest where I live, I can't even imagine how little time it would have taken for the numbers to increase beyond levels we could control and soon decrease to endangered levels that would take way too long to bring back. Hunting does not quicken the decline of animals, it manages the defferent species to sustainable amounts and keeps them around longer. As to why we choose the animals we do to hunt it is because they are the ones that can jump out of controlthe quickest(multiply the fastest). They do not pose a major threat to living, like running us out of our homes, but some pose a threat to motorists(ex:w hitetailed deer). I'll say it once again, we help the animals we hunt, not harm them.
 

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Hendrix1, the Whitetail deer is a classic example of an animal needing population predation. Look at parks in New Jersey and any heavily populated area along the American East coast. These little slices of nature had small (in some cases none) populations of deer. These parks were not hunted due to the "they are cute" crowd. It didn't take very long for the deer populations to explode due to no predation,creating hazards for motorists,and the "they are cute" crowds yards and flowerbeds getting eaten due to the parks not having enough browse.You see, an Ungulate will over populate itself well beyond what their habitat will support. And with natural predators gone, like the Wolf and Cougar ,the only remaining natural predator (man IE: hunters)is charged with the task. I'm guessing your response might be "re-introduce predatory animals" a possibility, but everywhere that has been tried tragic encounters between the predator and pets and children occur.Another point in defence of hunting, the licence fees paid by hunters create habitat for the animals, saving many from extinction or near extinction. Hunters also contribute heavily to local economies especially in our western states, many of the small towns depend heavily on hunter's dollars to survive year 'round.Another point on the resiliency of animals and the efforts to control their populations. Even with hundreds of thousands of whitetails being harvested each year , unless there's a natural calamity, their populations continue to be stable or grow.Hunting is something quite natural and pure, something I don't believe someone born a Subject to the Crown and not a Citizen would understand. (Not intended to be a slam just an observation from discussions with many from the U.K.)We could go quite in depth on this subject but I suspect you are merely trolling and having fun, so I'll refrain from going any further until you come up with specific counter-points or atleast respond.
 

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Whats the matter pumpkin? Let's read the whole sentance and comprehend.Perhaps hes a veggie who doesn't use any animal products therefore your 'were does the meat you eat come from?' arguement is useless.I said : "I guess the meat or vegetables that you eat all volunteer to die for your sustenance? Those plastic covered styrofoam trays of flesh just appear at the local shop nothing died for that to occur?"FLESH means more than just vertebrate meat it also pertains to a tomatoe or a peach or any other fruit....and those along with grains are actually the veal of the plant world, little embreyos that are touted by the nut and berry set as somehow better things to kill and eat, because in every sense you are killing another thing that had you left it alone would likely have grown into a mature plant. The difference is that it isn't all warm and fuzzy....well I guess a sunkissed peach would be. The fact that some humans anthropomorphizing these animals creates these warm and fuzzy problems. The number of times a non-hunter has said "I just couldn't shoot Bambi" when referring to actually hunting a live animal and comparing that magnificient creature to a Disney cartoon creation shows where much of this brain washing comes from. A second issue stems from the moving of a large number of humans into close quarters, these things we call cities. This removes the hands-on existence of farming, the reality of life and death through animal husbandry and relying on animals and crops for not only your table fare but also your livelyhood.Student logic is not valid when it is meerly the regurgitate of the pointy headed intellectuals that have at their hands all these young impressionable skulls full of mush that they preach to from a podium of authority and assumed superior knowledge. Is there a balanced opinion? Is there mention of the good that hunting provides both monetarily or in the physical environment? How many organizations were started by hunters to help promote habitat for various species or propogate animals on the brink? Is there a license that you purchase to bird watch or stamp that you buy to smell the flowers? Nope, but in every state and even at the Federal level there are license and stamps that directly provide for monies towards the very animals being hunted....which in turn provides additional areas for everyone to enjoy. The economic impact of almost every item purchased for hunting and fishing...directly on the local economy and indirectly through the excise taxes who benefits from these? These topics are not mentioned EXCEPT by the hunters when hunters are lambasted are they? Now, why do I hunt? I enjoy the chase. I have no problems admiting to being an alpha tier predator that derives satisfaction from choosing a prey item, learning all I can about that animal--its habits, its needs, ways to defeat its defenses and then putting that knowledge to the test. If I succeed and that is my desire then I get to eat that animal, if I fail then that animal lives another day. Sure beats the hell out of whipping into the drive through and ordering a #1 mega sized.There is something to be said when one is able to see first hand the cycle and balance of life....never forget that life itself is cruel, it kills you. There is a fine line between hobby and insanity.
 

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Good points people. I agree that with hunting you are keeping the population of a species under control but you are also stopping the evolution of that species. Natural selection favours animals that are the strongest for surviving that particular habit. So if a disease does come along then it probably will not wipe out all of the individuals within that species. Most major diseases in a species very rarely kill a whole population. It will decimate the population but some will remain with an immunity or partial immunity to that disease. The population will then grow again, immune to that particular disease.However a species can not evolve to defend its self from a human being with a gun. We are to far advanced and therefore no species will ever reach our levels because we do not let it [which really is a good thing]. However i believe by shooting it you are controlling the poulation in the short term but in the long term you are not helping it and are even helping in its premature decline. If we left them alone then they will evolve to defend against certain diseases [like i mentioned above] however there are certain pathogens they are not immune to at the minute due to the hunting, simple pathogens i believe they would have become exposed to and immune to much quicker if left to their own devices. They are at risk to these simple pathogens plus over the last 50 years, due to missuse of antimicrobials we are now getting 'super bugs' which if make it into the animals environment will destroy the species completely.If a certain species do become exticnt due to disease then thats just nature. It may seem cruel to just let a species die like that but its the way its ment to be. As humans we control our environment rather than our environment controlling us like it does with all other organisms. THerefore this has a knock on effect to other animals and we, to a certain extent control their enviroment. However, all though we control the envirment we can not control what is in it. We can not force a species to live in a certain environment if it can not sustain it, which is what you say humting does.If we change a environment and a species numbers declines then that means that it is not suited to that environment. If it can not evolve to survive then we have to let it die. We can not control enviroments and the species in it if they are not suited to it.Also, disease is a good thing in a population. It controls the population. LIfe has survived millions of years from this so why do we feel it needs changing?To the person who wrote the last post: I believe that a lot of veggies eat vegetables and not meat as vegetables, althogh alive, do not have a conciouns [sp]/mind of its own. Plants do not have nerves therefore can not feel pain [infact im pretty sure plants have no polarity at all therefore they have no medium for deliberate movement and a thinking mind]. Plants are what you would call 'on autopilot'. They are governed by enviromental ques [sp].I know plants are still live organisms but we do have to eat so you could look at it as choosing the lesser of two evils as animals have a mind.To say that student logic is not valid is a bit presumptious. Not all students just regurgitate what their lectures say. Most i find take in all sources of information and make their own minds up. With the advent of the web and free web acces in universities/colleges and bigger more rounded, more indepth student librarys than normal public ones students are actually in possesion of more information on most subjects than non-students.
 

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You should really read up on CWD, control hunts, and hunter success ratios.Just because we are advanced humans doesn't mean that these critters do not have the capability to outwit us.
 
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Much to do about nothing.If the kid is studying evolution(not talking about Harley's ) the animals should have thier own weapons by now.If he or she does not eat meat thats thier choice.The killing of animals part,(has anyone had to have thier dog put down),this is not killing?Has the student been to a slaughter house ?Has this student seen how coyotes kill for thier food.or any other animal ,like thier cat .The common house cat can kill bunch of birds just for kicks.Dogs left in the country ,because they were no longer cute,how do they kill live stock?Its a tuff world out thier but hunters pay more money to keep wild life alive then anyone else.Now if this person is an adult ,boy has are school system failed us.
 

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Guest, don't worry, Our schools didn't fail, hendrix1 is brit.
 

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My only arguement is "If we don't kill them someone else will". Sounds cold and uncaring, but bottom line is the large predators are gone and most of the habitats are cleared for human habitat for hunters AND non-hunters. That's the sad truth. Deer and Snow Geese are two good examples that have recently required some type of management. It can be managed by hunters who do use the meat, do fund other public activities, do subsidize farming (through licenses and fees), do bring billions (gun,treestand,clothing,ammo,etc.) or it can be done by government poisoning. Take your pick.
Jay G.
Shotgunworld.com
 
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ive had to take a lot of crap from fagets who dont know how to hunt or fish or do any outdoor sports, and ive had to go out of my way to explain why hunters play an important role in wildlife conservation, and let me tell you something you creampuff, i have heard better statements from 4th graders, and another thing, who the heck are you to call hunters cruel, you want to play the stereotype game, ill give you my opinion on you, you are a vegetarian, and vegetarians are fagets who dont understand nature and arent smart enough to pull the trigger, and what the heck is"hunters would feel alot different if they were pursued by hounds and guns", you posted a poll in the wrong place buddy, you wanna hear something cruel, pretty much every winter when enough deer arent killed and they become over populated, and the food freezes, there isnt enough food, you wanna try and imagine a fawn starving to death, i didnt think so, so let me give you some advice, dont ever post another pathedic poll like this one, this is ridiculous, and just have yourself a sweet dream about deer starving to death, and while your at it, go ahead and post another gay poll at a basketball website, complaing about how basketballs are made of leather,
sweet dreams
 
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It sure is funny that this guy can post as a member, and I have to post as a guest.I served from 1962 to 1966 in the usn , but that with a 1.00 will not buy me a cup of tea,but this guy can get the whole kettele.
 
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It sure is funny that this guy can post as a member, and I have to post as a guest.I served from 1962 to 1966 in the usn , but that with a 1.00 will not buy me a cup of tea,but this guy can get the whole kettle.What does it take to sign on this site as a member.I feel like telling you all where to stick this site up ,but I wont'n.This time.
 
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