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Krieghoff K-80 Trap Special Combo
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I shot good until I found out I canted the gun.
I shot good until I found out I was supposed to figure 8 the beads.
Anybody else regress after learning the right way? Just curious. Don’t put too much thought into it.
 

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Last time I shot, it was so dark I couldn't see the bead. Last week of the league and we just said let's shoot from the 27 for the heck of it. Eyes on the bird and you'll be fine
 

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Everything starts with good gun fit and gun mount. Sighting the beads to line up level and square is sort of fundamental. If it's throwing you off now that you are doing it, don't worry about it. Just keep doing it. You will get used to it.
Along with mounting gun square (and making sure that you have your face on the stock) you need to learn to look out past the beads once you have the gun mounted. Soft focus out past the house, not on the barrel.
This is one of those things that is pretty common....beginners are rarely given the basics when they start out. Gun fit, mount, foot position, holdover...
 

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I shot good until I found out I canted the gun.
I shot good until I found out I was supposed to figure 8 the beads.
Anybody else regress after learning the right way? Just curious. Don’t put too much thought into it.
Canting is easy to fix with a pad adjuster. Although canting makes little difference from the 16, some difference from long yardage. A basic gun fit issue where the pad should be set to the shape of your shoulder pocket and have full contact top to bottom to reduce recoil.

Fig8 is a visual confirmation that the mount is at the right height and head in the right position on the comb, visual confidence during the mount. POI needs to be set at the right rib and or comb height which may change the the figure 8 visual. Again, not that important after you get used to it. Where the shot is delivered very important.

These are different issues, gun fit and POI setting, as well as relevant to improving scores. POI the most relevant most important. Even if the gun doesn't fit quit right, it must deliver shot to an expected place.

Maltz
 

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I'd say both of those rules are situational.

Canting is a problem, if it noticeably screws up your pattern placement. Maybe your gun suffers from some regulation deficiency which would actually benefit from the cant.

The relationship between the beads is of value while verifying your cheekweld during the gun mount. Figure 8 is an easy picture to verify, so it's a nice stroke of luck if that's what you see with your setup. It's probably attainable if you have an adjustable rib, but otherwise you'll likely need to learn a different sight picture.
 

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Krieghoff K-80 Trap Special Combo
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Is the mid bead really necessary? If the gun fits, shouldn’t I just be able to mount it, look and shoot?
I can make the beads do whatever I want. I think I mess myself up worrying about them being in line. Verifying before every shot.
To clarify my question, why can’t I just line up the front bead with the back of the rib?
 

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Yeah, the value of any # of beads is debatable. Some fellow posted today on the ATA FB page about adding a third bead; that stirred the hornet nest.

I'd say if the beads help establish your cheekweld, they're fine. If you don't need them, that's fine, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I thought I read this somewhere, but now I can’t find it. What if, once you got your poi where you want it (I don’t know where that is for me as of this posting) that you had the mid bead moved so you see a figure 8 again? Possible I’d imagine.
 

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I shot good until I found out I canted the gun.
I shot good until I found out I was supposed to figure 8 the beads.
Anybody else regress after learning the right way? Just curious. Don’t put too much thought into it.
I see that no one answered your question, or at least the question you should have had -- why you shot well at first but then "regressed." The answer to that riddle is vastly more important to your long-term shooting satisfaction than anything to do with your beads.

(If there was anything seriously wrong with your "beads" or gunfit you would never have shot well in the beginning.)
 

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I regressed for a few weeks when I started shooting with both eyes open.
That is a real tough conversion to make without a very good coach to help you through it. You have to learn a whole new way of shooting, and the first step is to actually know what that new way is. Then you need about a ton of commitment.
 

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...until I over-analyzed my shooting.
...until the driving, crowds at the venue and waiting around became part of a work environment.
...until the costs of shooting in time and money were put on a balance scale.
...until autumn leaves became a finer path than concrete in directing me forward.
...until I had a hotdog from the crockpot on the food counter.
 

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Rich..... Whatever helps you look straight down the barrel/rib before and during the shot. I use a mid-bead, while others take the beads off their rib. Its my comfort, giving confidence enough to just look for the target and to forget the beads while focusing on the moving target. I also lock the gun into my mount while trying to remain relaxed.

Remember....... Matters little where the guns POI is set if you change the back sight(dominate eye) while pointing the target. A solid mount is a prerequisite to setting the POI and consistent shot placement.

Remember...... See the bead/barrel relationship in periphery vision while staying focused on the target. If you try to see the bead to target relationship, you will lose your hand to eye coordination by not clearly seeing the target and its movement. You stop the gun and shoot behind. Is called "bead checking". Don't do checking, even though it seems to be the only way to learn leads and follow. Checking is not the way to learning sight picture. Your subconscious learns lead and follow for every angle and speed. This is based on more than sight picture. Subconscious also learns handling and trigger timing and know when you out of control. Your instinct will try to fix this error by jerking the gun to the target.

Something a coach can see and you may not be aware.

Maltz
 

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I shot good until I found out I canted the gun.
I shot good until I found out I was supposed to figure 8 the beads.
Anybody else regress after learning the right way? Just curious. Don’t put too much thought into it.
Canting the comb toward your center acts similarly to adding cast. The vertical curvature of the gun (where the barrels transition to the stock) is translated partially into horizontal curvature when the gun is rotated. That acts like increasing cast. If canting worked well for you, it may have been because you need more cast than your gun provides upright. But truthfully, despite all the mistaken advice to the contrary, there is no downside to canting the gun. You could happily go back to doing that. It is, however helpful to have an adjustable butt plate installed that allows you to reverse cant the butt pad so that it sits upright against your shoulder when the gun is twisted in the other direction.

Regarding the beads, there is no hard and fast rule. Saying there is is just more misinformation. Just view them how is required for the gun to shoot where you are looking.
 

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That is a real tough conversion to make without a very good coach to help you through it. You have to learn a whole new way of shooting, and the first step is to actually know what that new way is. Then you need about a ton of commitment.
I disagree. The switch between shooting one and two eyed does not require a new way of shooting and does not require a coach. The fundamentals remain exactly the same.

I believe the value of coaching in shooting sports is extremely oversold. It might have limited value to getting someone started who has never held a gun but beyond that has no real value. The best shooters I know were not coached to become great shooters. They all have a self-motivated commitment to expertise and coaching cannot give someone that. Those I know who pay for coaching and buy all the latest books, videos, shooting glasses, shotcams, etc, etc are all mediocre shooters looking for a magic pill to replace practice. In spite of all the time and money they spend they remain mediocre shooters because they lack the commitment to change and practice.
 

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Krieghoff K-80 Trap Special Combo
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Canting the comb toward your center acts similarly to adding cast. The vertical curvature of the gun (where the barrels transition to the stock) is translated partially into horizontal curvature when the gun is rotated. That acts like increasing cast. If canting worked well for you, it may have been because you need more cast than your gun provides upright. But truthfully, despite all the mistaken advice to the contrary, there is no downside to canting the gun. You could happily go back to doing that. It is, however helpful to have an adjustable butt plate installed that allows you to reverse cant the butt pad so that it sits upright against your shoulder when the gun is twisted in the other direction.

Regarding the beads, there is no hard and fast rule. Saying there is is just more misinformation. Just view them how is required for the gun to shoot where you are looking.
My new adjustable butt plate just arrived and is sitting on the kitchen table.
I mostly straightened out my problems and I’m shooting well with the new K-80.

If a righty cants the gun towards his left (bead left) does it make the shot go right?
 
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