[pigeonhunter]

I was curious if it would be okay to change-out a win 209 primer for a cci 209 primer. Would this be okay?
Thanks.

 

[winders]

Without checking the load data? I wouldn't do it.

For example, here is the recipe I plan on loading:

Hulls: 12 gauge Remington STS/Nitro
Powder: 17 grains Hodgdon Clays
Wad: Green Duster
Primer: Winchester 209
Shot: 1 oz #9
FPS: 1185
LUP: 8,200

If I change out the Winchester primer for the CCI, here is what I load:

Hulls: 12 gauge Remington STS/Nitro
Powder: 16.6 grains Hodgdon Clays
Wad: Green Duster
Primer: CCI 209SC
Shot: 1 oz #9
FPS: 1185
LUP: 10,000

I end up using less powder but I get higher barrel pressure.

Scott

 

[Charlie Nash]

I would not swap out primers indescriminately without properly verifying recipes. That being said, however, it really depends on what you are reloading. For example, 12ga is so forgiving, if you are loading mid-range loads (ie, 1180-1200fps) your chamber pressures are normally fairly light. Changing to another primer will definitely have impact on the Chamber pressures, either higher or lower than the specified primer. However, they will normally still be within tolerance. For example, I use both Winchester and Remington primers. Most of the time, the Remington primers are about 500psi lower in pressure than the Winchesters. In 12 ga this is not normally significant. But in 20ga and other subguages you are running very high chamber pressures. I therefore use the Remington 209s to reduce the pressures by approx 500psi or about 5%. Likewise, Wads will have an impact on Chamber pressures. For example, Remington wads in 20ga will yield about 1000psi lower pressures than will Winchester wads. Thus using Remington Wads and Remington primers in 20 ga will lower pressures approx 1500psi -- a very siginficant amount.
Hope this helps.
Charlie Nash

 

[javven]

In a word, no. Often you can get away from this with a rifle where there is often so much more expansion volume and propellant quantity that the primer is enough less of a factor to say go ahead and do it, but load up starting at LEAST 1.5gr back from max, pref that much back from 90% loadings.

So, no don't do it.

 

[UltraMag]

I agree with Charlie, if your loading target loads that aren't at the upper end, i wouldn't have any problem using any primer, with perhaps the exception of the FED209A and the CCI209M as these are quite a bit hotter. but with target loads , shouldn't be a problem, with any other loads, i'd pay closer attention to the published data, usually you can spot "trends" in published data that are pretty consistent, as Charlie pointed out with the Rem primers.

 

[12GA guy]

I thought you forgot to get primers?

Chances are you will find some load data with the components you have that will list both the primers you mention, with perhaps only a change in the powder weight. What loading book did you get, or are you relying on web posted data, from the manufactures?

 

[Guest]

WHAT CAN I USE THE REMINGTON 57* PRIMERS IN ???

 

[Cougar]

Remington #57's were designed only to be used in "old" Remington .410 shells! PERIOD.

The #57 has a battery cup that has a smaller diameter than the industry standard and will fall out of other shells that aren't the Remington .410 hulls they were designed to be used in. IOW, the only application for #57 Remington primers (and CCI 157's if you ever happen to see any) is in these "very old," hard-to-find , no-longer-made Remington .410 hulls.

 

[Sidelock]

Remington #57's were designed only to be used in "old" Remington .410 shells! PERIOD.

The #57 has a battery cup that has a smaller diameter than the industry standard and will fall out of other shells that aren't the Remington .410 hulls they were designed to be used in. IOW, the only application for #57 Remington primers (and CCI 157's if you ever happen to see any) is in these "very old," hard-to-find , no-longer-made Remington .410 hulls.

I am unaware of the Remington #57 primer, but I have some that are designated as 57*. The 57* primer was used for everything from 10 ga to 28 ga and is frequently listed in my old Lyman and Herculese manuals.

There was a Remington 69 primer which was designed for use in the .410, but I think even it has some very limited applications in other sizes (at least 28 ga). As I recall, the diameter of the 57* is the same as the 69.

 

[winders]

I found this on the web:

"Several different size primers have been made over the years. The old brass shotshells had a primer pocket identical the ones used for rifle or handguns. This style took a primer very similar to ones used for metallic cases. Remington and Peters, at one time used a smaller primer than Winchester and Federal. This obsolete size was called a 57 or 157, or simply a Remington size. Today however, all U.S. shells and most foreign made take the standard size 209."

Scott

 

[Sidelock]

I found this on the web:

"Remington and Peters, at one time used a smaller primer than Winchester and Federal. This obsolete size was called a 57 or 157, or simply a Remington size. Today however, all U.S. shells and most foreign made take the standard size 209."

Yes, except that the only ones I have seen have been marked with a star after the number. I have loaded a lot of these primers with the old style Remington hulls. These hulls have not been sold for many years. I loaded them in 12 and 28 ga. The 69 I mentioned is shorter in length than the 57* and is mostly specified for use with .410. Both have a diameter that is smaller than the present day 209 size.

I still have several boxes of 57* and 2-3 bricks of 69's, but the hulls to use them have been used up.

 

[Guest]

the lyman reloading manual has primer brand psi variation test results from three different companies.....same load -just swapping out the primers [standard 209,not 209m].

the hot ones are federal ,followed by winchester ,fiocchi remington, then cci.

if you look at the loading data,you will find the cci always produces the lowest pressure against the same load using the other primers.where the cci pressure shows a couple hundred psi increase is when the powder charge is increased.

anyways,the winchesters are the cheapest pricewise,and if you want to cut pressure,just cut your powder charge 2 grains.

or shoot 7/8 ounce lead over a 1 1/8 ounce load.

you can always go lighter to the point of some unburned flakes,
just watch for those punky sounding bloopers.

 

[huntinmo]

WHAT CAN I USE THE REMINGTON 57* PRIMERS IN ???

Homer - I have been trying to use mine up in some 20 gauge Remington cases that I have, but the paper ones only last a couple of loadings and I am about out of the plastics also. The only other Remingtons that I have that use the 57* size primers are some 3 inch 12 gauge hulls. I am thinking about using some of those hulls with an ounce and 1/8th sporting clays load. It will take an extra step to add a 1/4 inch filler, but should be a very safe load and I have plenty of vintage data to support this to go along with some vintage powders. If you do find hulls be sure to remember to use a flake powder. The 57* and 97* primers were discontinued when ball powders were introduced since they do not have covered flash holes.

 

[Burnt Powder]

After about 3 posts the whole story about the 57s comes out. No they weren't just used in ,410s, but I do think the last hull Remington changed over to the world standard 209 was the .410. If you got to the reloading shotgun shells thing late, you may not know any other shell ever used them, and yes, they did NOT have a paper seal/disk over the flash hole in the battery cup. With the old DuPont, IMR powders commonly used in those days it wasn't an issue. With the advent of small grain ball powder it was. It ran down inside the battery cup on top of the cap it's self and caused problems. That's why you should never use the old 57 style primers with ball powder. Remington also made a 97 primer. I don't recall for sure, but I think it was a 209 dia but still without a seal on the flash hole. Don't think I have any of them arround any more either, I did see a guy at a gun show a while back with about 1/2 dozen bricks of 57s for sale for a Fiver each. Don't think he sold them either!

BP

 

[tony kosinski]

the only primers that will directly interchange are the nobel sport and winchester 209 and keeping the loadings the same if their are others i haven't found them yet...tony