Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently came into the possession of a very nice 1919 Ithaca Flues Model 1-1/2 16ga. It swings and shoots like a dream. A problem surfaced when I went to the local gun club and shot a round of trap yesterday. I noticed that the action became increasingly stiff and sticky when opened to remove the spent round. I believe the problem is with the cocking mechanism as it opens quite smooth when the springs are compressed and ready to fire. Am I lucky enough to be able to just apply some lubricant at a stratigic point? Or, does this warrant a visit to the local gunsmith where some complex dissasembly is required? Thank you for any and all helpful hints and opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Remove the barrel/forearm, clean the gun thoroughly, inspect the receiver for any cracks, and if finding none, lightly oil it and put it back together. Then only shoot low pressure shells in it. Modern shotshells produce considerably more pressure than the Flues was designed for.
Check some of the spent hulls if you still have them available and see if the case head is extremely flattened and if there are any punctured primers. These are signs of pressure problems. Finding none of these problems, drop a couple of the aluminum or plastic dummy shells in the chambers, pull the triggers and see if the action is still hard to open, if so I would recommend a trip to the gunsmith. Let us know what you find. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Arv. I shoot 2.5" lite loads and didn't think to keep any empty hulls to inspect. I have taken it down cleaned and lubed. It seemed a bit better. Can't find any cracks. Most likely will take it to the smith. I really want to use it for a pheasant & grouse gun. With 28" bbl choked IC/M it is a gem with good case color and wood like furniture. Thank you again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,734 Posts
Your description is right in line with a common failing in this gun.

One of the problems with the Flues design was the cocking rod which was prone to binding and then failing.

The cocking rod runs through the lump. Start by cleaning and lubricating the rod. But I'd bet that it is bent and you'll need to get the gun to someone familiar with Flues model guns to address it.

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,829 Posts
With all due respecto Jeff, My Flues has a cocking arm, My NIDs hav cocking rods,, as for "common failings" I, as well as Ithaca, was unaware of that, The made a Quarter million of them.. THe only Failing was the frame cracking, which came about long after the NID was on the market, from Idiots using High presure loads.. I will agree with Jeff, that you need a Smith who is familiar with the Flues..Bushrod
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I spoke with Less at Diamond Gunsmithing. He said to make sure that the firing pins were not dragging across the spent round when opening the action. He said to dry fire and then open (with out snap caps). If there is still resistance, then it is the rod. So I'll check this out when I get home this evening as I utilize snap caps in all my shotguns. Either way, he stated that both issues were repairable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,734 Posts
Natty,

Almost two years ago you replied to a question I posted on Flues "cocking rods", you did not correct me on the nomenclature then.

Weve got to stop meeting like this!

Merry Christmas!

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Well, I'm not sure what Flues you have but I have a 12 Ga 1919 model by the serial number. I just took it apart because one of the cocking lever pins had broke off and the local gunsmith said I could repair it myself. After about 15 minutes of disassembly I discovered that the FLUES model does not have separate cocking levers, they are in fact extensions of the hammers. The hammers have a single pivot point just in front of their sears. They are 'L' shaped with the cocking pin at a 90 laterally on the long end. I thought about having a new pin welded on with stellite rod but I found a new hammer online and will buy that instead.

p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have the 1919 1-1/2 in 16ga. This is very interesting. I have already taken mine in to the smith. I am going to call tomorrow and get the status. I am going to print your observations and carry them to him. I am not as confident as you in taking on dissasembly. I would really like to know how you make out and where you found your parts. Thanks a million...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
The sub gauge (16 & 20) Flues are subject to cracking frames. Don't use high pressure loads. Remember that trap/skeet loads are high pressure loads. They use cheap powder which is high pressure. You are better off reloading with PB or equivalent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Good choice on ammo. Although the 2 1/2" by Fiocchi are very hot. First stage cracks may be hard to see but they quickly open up. These vary in frame arm thickness in the same gauge for some reason and the thinner ones are the problem. One Ithaca specialist told me he expected 10% of the subframe Flues to be cracked. That is a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
The Flues was a lightweight game gun. The 12 Ga frames do not seem to have a problem. But some of the frames on the 16 and 20 gauge guns were lighter than others and the light ones tend to crack with modern loads which are hotter than the early loads. If memory serves correctly, the Flues was replaced by the NID in around 1920. The Flues were under 400,000 serial number range and the NIDs were higher than that. No problem with the NID's which are stronger than the Flues. Cracks form where the front of the detonator (face) meets the table arms (called by some the "water table"). It is called that incorrectly. Somewhere, I have the problem dimensions written down, but don't know where.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Well, I did weld a piece of drill rod on the end just as a try, my son is a welder. It broke the second time I cocked it, so I ordered the new hammer, seems the drill rod was too brittle, I should have used a grade 8 or 5 bolt to be more ductile. I think I confirmed the gun was made in 1919, when I pulled off the trigger guard and looked on the underside it was stamped with 1219 which I am guessing is a date stamp for 12 month of 1919, which would match with the 319xxx serial number. I found a crack in the stock and repaired it when it was apart, in addition I put bedding in all of the old wood screw holes to give the screws new bite. I also found that whoever took it apart previously had lost the break open lever retainer button spring, I made a new one. While it was apart I measured the chambers at 2.8" to the lip which would put it in line for modern ammo but low-velocity, the right barrel is marked Smokeless Powder Steel, and the left barrel is marked Made in USA. The engraving on the receiver is a pointing setter, and the lettering has a severe reverse slant to it, most likely the hallmark of the engraver. I also noted the forearm had been over-coated with epoxy, the inside was the original walnut as it had a matching serial number, but bedding material had been used to "remake" the forearm, they even went to the point of checkering it. I may try to find a piece of straight grain walnut and make a new forearm using the over-coated one as a pattern, and the original portion as a sandwich laminate inside . I would like someone to email me pictures of the forearm to give me an idea what a field grade forearm looks like.
pgoodyearatcharterdotnet replace the at and dot as appropriate.

p
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top