Junk Guns
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Most any gun by American Arms (now Tristar), FIE, Charles Daly, European American Arms, Armsport, Interarms, Nobel/Squires Bringham, Mossberg autos, Reminton O/Us after the 3200, many Russian and Turkish guns; any lower end Spanish or Italian gun is suspect with out close inspection. I'm rather leery of any non-name gun that doesn't have a long established record of heavy use or widespread repair facilities.
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7,201 Posts
Uglydog has it right.
Buy from these and you will not go wrong.
Browning http://www.browning.com
Beretta http://www.berettausa.com
Franchi http://www.franchiusa.com
Remington http://www.remington.com
Ithaca
SKB
Ugartechea
AyA (new, I'd watch the old ones)
Winchester
Benelli http://www.benelliusa.com
Weatherby http://www.weatherby.com
If your on a budget look no further than pump guns from Remington, Winchester, Benelli
If your not on a budget SKB, Browning, Benelli, Beretta & Ugi's
Semi-Auto: Browning, Beretta, Benelli, Weatherby
Buy from these and you will not go wrong.
Browning http://www.browning.com
Beretta http://www.berettausa.com
Franchi http://www.franchiusa.com
Remington http://www.remington.com
Ithaca
SKB
Ugartechea
AyA (new, I'd watch the old ones)
Winchester
Benelli http://www.benelliusa.com
Weatherby http://www.weatherby.com
If your on a budget look no further than pump guns from Remington, Winchester, Benelli
If your not on a budget SKB, Browning, Benelli, Beretta & Ugi's
Semi-Auto: Browning, Beretta, Benelli, Weatherby
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985 Posts
I just bought a Nova pump.I have an old (1974 SKB 900xl ) that my wife bought me.I had taken theSKB in to have it cleaned .The guy at the counter had it appraised while I was handling the Nova.I have never had any problems with it ever.I've killed dove ,quail ,phesant,and ducks.The appraiseal was was $100 bucks.The bluing is 99% good,the stock has no major dings or bad spots.I allmost walked out of that gun shop.
I would also have to add any gun from China (Norinco). The 1911 copies were pretty decent for the price when they first came out but the prices have gone up to the point that they are no longer the deal they once were.
vicvlb,
I, too, would have been upset with that amount on an appraisal. If it is the one I'm thinking of, it is an auto and I would expect the gun to be worth approximately the same as a Rem 1100. Now if you asked for a trade in amount, the price would be about $75 too low. The 900 has been out of production for many years and the ability to replace worn parts can be difficult. Also, the average buyer would likely look for a newer, more familiar model and the 900 would sit on the rack longer than a newer model or need to be offered at a lower price. It is a nice gun but its age and lack of collector or cult status is working against it.
vicvlb,
I, too, would have been upset with that amount on an appraisal. If it is the one I'm thinking of, it is an auto and I would expect the gun to be worth approximately the same as a Rem 1100. Now if you asked for a trade in amount, the price would be about $75 too low. The 900 has been out of production for many years and the ability to replace worn parts can be difficult. Also, the average buyer would likely look for a newer, more familiar model and the 900 would sit on the rack longer than a newer model or need to be offered at a lower price. It is a nice gun but its age and lack of collector or cult status is working against it.
G
Guest
·We "won" a Benelli Nova at a local duck hunting based dinner. When we went to pick it up at the local hunting store we decided that it would be better to not have another pump, so we would put the money towards something else. We were told the value of the gun new to them was $220. Ouch. You can't buy the parts for that much, just like you can't buy your used gun/parts for $100.
My gun to avoid... The Smith and Wesson 1000 Special semi-automatic shotgun. It truly patterns about 12 inches right and 9 inches low at 20 yards. This was a gift to me so its hard to complain, but I missed a lot of shots over the years with that gun. I broke down and bought a SBE to hunt with years later when I finally had some scratch built up in my pocket. Wow what a difference when it comes to hunting. Abusive on the body for sporting clays but excellent in the field. Now I know what/why I had been missing all this years. Not only does it fit, but when sighting down the pins just for patterning it is dead on. The S & W is worth $100 at best, so I won't sell it. But definitely wouldn't be buying a used one anytime soon. I think they sold the semi-auto rights to Mossberg, so I'd stay away from those as well.
My gun to avoid... The Smith and Wesson 1000 Special semi-automatic shotgun. It truly patterns about 12 inches right and 9 inches low at 20 yards. This was a gift to me so its hard to complain, but I missed a lot of shots over the years with that gun. I broke down and bought a SBE to hunt with years later when I finally had some scratch built up in my pocket. Wow what a difference when it comes to hunting. Abusive on the body for sporting clays but excellent in the field. Now I know what/why I had been missing all this years. Not only does it fit, but when sighting down the pins just for patterning it is dead on. The S & W is worth $100 at best, so I won't sell it. But definitely wouldn't be buying a used one anytime soon. I think they sold the semi-auto rights to Mossberg, so I'd stay away from those as well.
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531 Posts
I have an Armscor M-30. I got it for $110 from a gun show in Indianapolis a couple years ago. It isn't too bad. It's a lot like a Mossberg 500 crossed with a Winchester M-12. It has an 18 1/2" barrel and holds 7 rounds (6+1). But it only takes 2 3/4" shells.
It was sold to me without a stock. I was told I could modify a Mossberg stock to fit which I did by using an 8" milling *******. I added a sling swivel stud to the grip. I also added a heatshield and a sling. It's a bit front-heavy for its size.
It's a junk gun, sure, but it would serve its purpose. The forearm is beefy, ribbed, made of wood, and painted black.
It was sold to me without a stock. I was told I could modify a Mossberg stock to fit which I did by using an 8" milling *******. I added a sling swivel stud to the grip. I also added a heatshield and a sling. It's a bit front-heavy for its size.
It's a junk gun, sure, but it would serve its purpose. The forearm is beefy, ribbed, made of wood, and painted black.
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40 Posts
Had a 20 gauge Winchester 1200 that was advertised as an autoloader. Shoulda sued 'em for false advertisement. After 2 boxes of ammo (about an hour of dove hunting) it was a single shot. Didn't matter how often I cleaned it. What a piece of junk.
Turned me off to Winchester and gas operated autos in general.....
Turned me off to Winchester and gas operated autos in general.....
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40 Posts
By golly, it was a 1300 Ranger. Oh, the heartbreak of Sometimers disease...... 
What I will never forget about that gun is the almost uncontrollable urge it gave me to throw it in the river! :evil:
What I will never forget about that gun is the almost uncontrollable urge it gave me to throw it in the river! :evil:
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10,501 Posts
Sorry,Ugly Dog but I have to disagree with you about Charles Daly. I have several CD guns that are exellent guns. Two are SxS Charles Daly Lidners made in Prussia. One of the Lidners is a Diamond Regent that took craftsmen up to one year to produce before WWII. It is valued near $90,000. CD O/U guns made by Miroku(1963-76)are virtually the same gun as a Winchester 101. These are quality guns,too. Breda made the CD semiautomatics back it the 1960's. Again these are nice guns. The Diamond Regent and Diamond Regent GTX EDL that my uncle left me is a beautiful O/U valued near $20,000. Also,the SxS CD guns made in the late 1990s are showing up very strong on the used gun market. Some are topping the $20,000 mark and the lowley Country Squire is demanding over $700 on today's market. One of my favorite deer rifles is a CD O/U 30-06 Empire double.
I cannot understand why you badmouth these guns. Charles Daly has been associated with fine guns since 1865.
As far as Norinco goes,I have a Norinco AK47/MAK90 that has thousands of rounds through it and has not ever failed. I bought it for $198,new. Where can you find a new 30cal. semi auto for that price?
Texashunter, Aguirre Y Aranzabal (AYA) has produced exellent SxS sidelocks and boxlocks since 1917. Some of their early guns like the Augusta,Super 37,M77,and M79 series guns are very pricey and desirable. Checking the Roy's list I see that an Agusta sold for $24,950 last year while a M77 went for $3800. Guys that lay down that kind of cash know a good gun when it comes along.
My point is,that it is not a good idea to condemn any company as being bad because of one gun that it makes or has sold. After all.Winchester made the M1911 shotgun and Remington's quality has gone to the dogs in recent years.
I cannot understand why you badmouth these guns. Charles Daly has been associated with fine guns since 1865.
As far as Norinco goes,I have a Norinco AK47/MAK90 that has thousands of rounds through it and has not ever failed. I bought it for $198,new. Where can you find a new 30cal. semi auto for that price?
Texashunter, Aguirre Y Aranzabal (AYA) has produced exellent SxS sidelocks and boxlocks since 1917. Some of their early guns like the Augusta,Super 37,M77,and M79 series guns are very pricey and desirable. Checking the Roy's list I see that an Agusta sold for $24,950 last year while a M77 went for $3800. Guys that lay down that kind of cash know a good gun when it comes along.
My point is,that it is not a good idea to condemn any company as being bad because of one gun that it makes or has sold. After all.Winchester made the M1911 shotgun and Remington's quality has gone to the dogs in recent years.
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3,705 Posts
I personally do not pay attention to anyone who degrades a name brand based on one bad experience. Some people are just brand biased, we see it here everyday!! Most brands have had a gun fail or brake down here & there. Unless I personally have witnessed or experienced the lack of quality myself, I will give most guns a chance. I love it when people degrade a gun they have never owned. :?
I see people degrade the Baikal/Spartan line out of ignorance.
Many owners will tell you they are built like tanks and are quality shotguns.
Now, I will add mine to the list, the Steven / Savage model 67 shotgun is one that I will stay away from. Trigger housing made of pot metal, hard to pump, brakes down frequently. Learned my lesson with that one.
I see people degrade the Baikal/Spartan line out of ignorance.
Many owners will tell you they are built like tanks and are quality shotguns.
Now, I will add mine to the list, the Steven / Savage model 67 shotgun is one that I will stay away from. Trigger housing made of pot metal, hard to pump, brakes down frequently. Learned my lesson with that one.
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2,016 Posts
This statement was true until a few years ago. The current crop of Charles Daly branded pump and autoloader shotguns are of Turkish manufacture and are, to be polite, less than stellar in quality and workmanship.A5guy said:
Can't say anything about the O/U or SxS guns, though.... no experience with the newer ones.
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51 Posts
I am going to throw my latest Remington on the mercy pile of junk. It is a 11-87 upland in 20 gauge. It is horrible. I have had it now for about two years and it has been worked on three times. The first time was for the stock about to fall off. The other two have been for ejection problems. I have owned several 1100's over the years and have never had problems. But when Remington made the 11-87 to appease guys who wanted a shoot all shells gun, they digressed. The gun has to be super clean at all times and will not cycle light loads very well at all. I have tried all types of ammo. Remington likes to state that since it is a 3 inch chamber gun, that you can't expect all light loads to work. This is ridiculous. I have a Beretta 390 20 gauge that cycles them all whether dirty or clean. Unfortunately, Remington is typical American and vey traditional thinking. No wonder all the Italian guns cost more. They build a better product. For example: Benelli, Beretta and Franchi are constantly changing their guns to improve and give customers what they want. Remington sticks to old designs and heavy shotguns. This thinking will only continue to alienate customers. Once I finally get rid of this gun, I probably want buy another Remington shotgun. At first, I thought the 11-87 problems were mainly with 20 gauge guns but I have talked with several 12 owners who say the same. The last time my gun came back from repair after Remington replaced the barrel, It failed to cycle 10 out of 100 shells . I hardly think that a 10% failure rate is a sucessful repair.
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10,501 Posts
WWB, Over the years,since Charles Daly started to import fine European guns to the US his name has been owned by dozens of induviduals,lawyers,banks,partnerships and corporations. I understand that the present Charles Daly company is,or soon will be, in bankruptcy. Who knows what will hapen to that famous,infamous and even historical name?
My Remington 11-87 wouldn't cycle either and I had it repaired numerous times with no success. I now shoot a Beretta Gold Sporting and have zero problems of any kind. I shot one hundred rounds of sporting clays with it yesterday and not one hint of trouble. I could have never done that with the 11-87 it would have jammed like crazy. I wish an American gun company would produce a quality semi as well, that has a 3" chamber and doesn't weigh a ton. I guess until then we will keeping buying foreign semi's.
This is an ancient post but in rereading my original posts, I stand by my opinion. I agree that Charles Daly imported good quality guns at one time but that era ended 30 years ago. I could have mentioned the differences but anyone looking at a 30+ year old gun that is no longer in production should do a little checking into the subject before plunking down their cash, especially at the prices these older guns are often advertised. An informed buyer will know the differences, the vast majority will just see the Charles Daly name and assume the new guns will be of the same quality as the old. Guns bearing the Charles Daly "name" that have been imported since the late '70s-early '80s (whenever CD emerged from that particular insolvency) are not anywheres near the guns of earlier times and should not be confused with them. CD has become an importer of so called "affordable" (i.e. are meant to reach a price point and not a quality point) guns and any cursory research into the company(ies) since then will show that to be true. I realize the history of quality arms the CD name once meant but that water has long flowed past the mill and evaporated. The CD of the past 2-3 decades and especially now, are a very different aimal and it should blasphemy to mention them with th CDs of old.
Also, those Daly Mirokus I've seen (I still currently own one) are different than Citoris even though they are made by the same company. Miroku may have made both guns but they were to different specifications. Parts are not interchangable in my experience, at least not between the CDs and Citoris of the 1980s and later. That is one reason I got rid of two the CDs I owned; simple parts were becoming difficult to find.
I also stand with my Norinco comment, for less than $150 ($118 in some places for an SKS) I can get an AK/SKS from other countries which are just as "accurate" and reliable. As another example, a Norinco 1911 runs $375 if it can be found, a basic Springfield 1911 runs $405-$450 and is as common as dandelions in spring. Parts interchangability is easier with the Springfield, the Norincos have required more fitting, even between individual Norincos. Norinco is of acceptable quality but, in my opinion, not at the prices they are asking. The Armscor 1911s are of similar quality in my eyes as the Norinco and can be found for a bit over $300 which is closer to the price point I feel Norico fits.
Also, those Daly Mirokus I've seen (I still currently own one) are different than Citoris even though they are made by the same company. Miroku may have made both guns but they were to different specifications. Parts are not interchangable in my experience, at least not between the CDs and Citoris of the 1980s and later. That is one reason I got rid of two the CDs I owned; simple parts were becoming difficult to find.
I also stand with my Norinco comment, for less than $150 ($118 in some places for an SKS) I can get an AK/SKS from other countries which are just as "accurate" and reliable. As another example, a Norinco 1911 runs $375 if it can be found, a basic Springfield 1911 runs $405-$450 and is as common as dandelions in spring. Parts interchangability is easier with the Springfield, the Norincos have required more fitting, even between individual Norincos. Norinco is of acceptable quality but, in my opinion, not at the prices they are asking. The Armscor 1911s are of similar quality in my eyes as the Norinco and can be found for a bit over $300 which is closer to the price point I feel Norico fits.
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