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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading a article in Gun Tests about youth 20 gauge shotguns for HD I became interested in getting one. It makes good sense as I believe the 12 gauge Mossberg I currently have for the task is a little too much for my wife. That and I have little ones quickly getting to the age of learning to shoot. I went on a mission to find something and got this 870 Express Jr.

It has the 18.5 VR barrel which I find is easier to sight down than a smooth top. The stock is a ultra short 12" LOP. That may have to change. I think a stock somewhere between that and the normal 14" LOP would work perfectly. Hogue makes one?

Only bummer I have with it is the 5 round capacity. Other than that this Remington seems more solid than my Mossbergs.



What do you guys think?
 

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Nice shotgun!

The only 870 Express Jr. that I've seen is the NWTF 'Jake' youth gun.
I recently bought an 870 Express Youth 20 ga. for my son, and it has a 21" bbl., with a 13" LOP. It looks just like what you have pictured.

I haven't seen any magazine extensions for the 20 ga., but, that doesn't mean that there aren't any out there.

Very reasonable acquisition for HD.

Enjoy!

Keith
 

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How does the receiver width compare to a 12ga. 870? Have you found a good source of HD accessories?

Nice gun.

Thanks in advance.
 

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for the purposes you described, i'd say you scored...

easy on the kids and the wife and if you load it with managed recoil shells from remington or the like, you'll make the new to shotgun shooters even more comfortable...

nice addition to the fleet...

mmmmm... i have seen the slip-on rubber recoil pads that could give you the perfect 13 LOP you desire...
 

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I just got the 870 Youth 20GA with 21" barrel as a HD gun for my mom. I'm breaking it in for her by using it for my skeet league and am very happy with it.

I think with a load of #4 shot it will make a fine HD gun.

Quite frankly, if somebody is still coming at you after you loose five shotgun blasts in their direction you've got bigger problems than another couple rounds will solve. I wouldn't worry about the magazine capacity. Then again...for under $50, that two round extension by Wilson Combat might be worth the price of admission. LOL
 

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Buzzkilr,

I got one exactly like it just a couple months ago. I absolutely LOVE it! The short compact size is perfect for HD and makes for a convenient truck, camp, or back door gun. The 12" LOP is a little too short, but I've found that after shouldering it a couple hundred times I'm actually getting used to it. Just takes some adjusting.

Just like you, my 12ga. was too long, heavy, and intimidating for my wife. The little 20ga. is lighter, smaller, and more easily handled - especially for smaller ladies and kids. Most importantly, it doesn't SEEM as overwhelming as the full size twelve.

I'm not making any modifications to mine because I don't think it needs any. I might refinish the stock with something that will provide a little more protection to the wood. That's about it.

Reduced recoil 20ga. loads seem hard to find, though. Especially in buckshot for home defense.

8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hey that's two of us then! I'm getting used to the LOP the more I play with it. I think the 2 3/4 20 G stuff should be manageable. I bought the only 20 gauge buck I could find and some Remington and Federal slugs.

I don't think I'll be doing anything to this other than increasing the shell capacity with that Wilson piece. It makes me want to go out and get a 12 G 870 to replace my Mossberg.

Rob
 

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Nice little gun. Buckshot from a 20 gauge will definately get the point across to the bad guys. I agree with Red-Leg in that if you can't get the job done with 5 rounds from a shotgun, then a hasty retreat may be in your best interest.
I am not a big fan of extended mags., side saddles,tactical lights, folding stocks, barrel shrouds....., if you ever had to use this gun and it was presented to jurors in court, I'd want it to look as close to factory as possible, and not look like I was a rambo wanna be itching for the chance to blast someone. That being said, I do have a slip-on 5 shell holder that I can remove in 1/2 second, and an 18" barrel, strictly used for target practice. :wink:
 

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robie1 said:
I am not a big fan of extended mags., side saddles,tactical lights, folding stocks, barrel shrouds....., if you ever had to use this gun and it was presented to jurors in court, I'd want it to look as close to factory as possible, and not look like I was a rambo wanna be itching for the chance to blast someone. That being said, I do have a slip-on 5 shell holder that I can remove in 1/2 second, and an 18" barrel, strictly used for target practice. :wink:
This is a neat theory but no one has ever been able to come up it a case where the gun used has been an issue.
 

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ZOMBIE

Huh? Are you serious? That is one of the first things a prosecutor (but more likely in a wrongful death suit) would bring up. Not the "gun" used, but the aftermarket tactical features added to the gun for aggressive intent. Remember that it is his job to sway the jury in his favor and he will use any card you hand him. You want to make yourself look like you were just at home relaxing after delivering food baskets to the poor and reading to the blind and resting up for church in the morning when a criminal, hell bent on robbery and murder, forced you into a position in which you had to act decisively to save yourself and loved ones. But look, keep on posting, when you do, my eyes are mysteriously drawn to the "left" :shock: :D :wink:
 

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And again, find me a case where this has come up. A defense attorney worth his money is going to tear that argument apart. A good shoot is a good shoot.

In 1984, Gary Fadden used a legally owned Ruger AC556 (a select fire version of the Mini-14) in a defensive shooting. During the resulting trial for 1st degree murder, the judge made a point of instructing the jury that the weapon used had nothing to do with if the shooting was in self defense.

Here is a link to an excellent article about the case.

Mr. Fadden was found not guilty on all counts, btw.
 

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ZOMBIE

It "comes up" in cases all the time. As I said, it is swaying the jury; and asking me to produce data is like asking to produce evidence from a trial that it is better for the defendant to wear a sportcoat to trial rather than a black turtle neck to soften his look and make him more amiable to the jury. You are dealing with normal everyday people, and as wonderful as it is that you found a case where the judge instructed something and the verdict was such that supports your argument, it is by no means a blanket reference. Jurors have their own opinions and any fact that could possibly hurt your case should be prevented. I routinely come across your posts and at times you make very valid statements, so on this matter I will agree to disagree and will conclude by saing that this is the very reason for having these forums; to let people gather all views to form their own opinions. :idea:
 

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robie1 said:
You are dealing with normal everyday people,
Who can tell the difference between a guy coming to court wearing biker leather, long hair and tattoos up and down his body and a guy clean shaven and wearing a business suit. However, can they tell the difference between a chopped and modded 870 and one that isn't?

I recently worked on an 870 express for a friend, the pictures are in the "Post Pictures of Your Tactical Shotgun" thread. One picture shows the shotgun with no mag extension and a 28" barrel. The other shows the shotgun with a +2 extension and a 21" barrel. A later poster mentions that he showed those pictures to his girlfriend, and her response? "Those guns look the same."

To those who can tell the difference, it won't make a difference, and those to whom it might possibly make a difference won't be able to tell the difference.

and as wonderful as it is that you found a case where the judge instructed something and the verdict was such that supports your argument, it is by no means a blanket reference.
Well, there's evidence, and then there's assertion not backed up by evidence.

Jurors have their own opinions and any fact that could possibly hurt your case should be prevented.
Jurors have all sorts of funny opinions. What happens if you get an anti-hunter on the jury? Your safe, sporting, non-tactical sportspiece is now a bambi-killer gun, and you're a murderer of defenseless animals. Whoops.
 

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Grizzlywinmag,
The reason I didn't mention the so called proof is that it is not a credible argument and I don't feel like beating this dead horse, but here we go. The man in the story worked at the H&K plant and picked up a weapon that he was test firing while on the job. He did not purchase the weapon and alter it with after market gadgets and gizmos to give the elusion of a menacing "freak gun". So how do you consider this some kind of evidence? Even Rubber man can't reach that far. :lol:

NOW, I really come on this site to enjoy myself and collect info. as well as placing jewels of wisdom and opinions of my own, but dragging anyone into a ongoing argument over nonsense is doing nothing more than eating up space on the forum and lending no real useful information to the subject at hand. I realize that opinions are like a$$ho*^s; everyone has one, (and every one but yours stinks) AGREED?
 

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robie1 said:
Grizzlywinmag,
The reason I didn't mention the so called proof is that it is not a credible argument and I don't feel like beating this dead horse, but here we go. The man in the story worked at the H&K plant and picked up a weapon that he was test firing while on the job. He did not purchase the weapon and alter it with after market gadgets and gizmos to give the elusion of a menacing "freak gun". So how do you consider this some kind of evidence? Even Rubber man can't reach that far. :lol:
The rifle used was fully automatic. You think aftermarket goodies would influence a jury but a machine gun wouldn't?

Buzzkilr, Sorry about the total derailment of your thread.
 

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Does anyone here have any experience with killing mini-zombies with a 20 Gauge?? I would just like to know if it is enough firepower or not, since mini-zombies are becoming more & more of a problem, as are the full size as well.
 

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Buzzkilr....

Choate makes magazine extensions and stocks for the 870 20 ga. youth gun. The ones that you need are for the 870 LW series. Full size 870 stocks will not fit the youth size gun.

I bought an 870 youth for my son a few years ago. He's now outgrown it and I'm thinking about converting it to a home defense gun also.

Let us know how yours turns out.

Link to Choate:

http://www.riflestock.com/
 

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Robie 1,

You make excellent, intelligent, logical points about factors which can and do influence jurors. Anyone who thinks that jurors AREN'T influenced by visual things simply is naive, IMO. Besides, how is someone supposed to PROVE what swayed a juror to vote a particular way? :?

I've had this very same argument before that you are having right now with these guys, and it's clear to me that they don't want to believe that jurors could be adversely influenced by the appearance of a gun. It's OK with me if they don't want to believe it. I just hate that so many other young easily swayed readers might read it and believe the same thing....... perhaps to their detriment if they ever have to use their "tactical" gun.

No, I can't PROVE that the appearance of a gun has swayed the opinion of any juror, but by the same token, no one can PROVE that the appearance HASN'T swayed the opinion of a juror in some criminal case. And in a civil case, the burden of proof is MUCH less stringent than in a criminal case. It wouldn't do a person much good to be found Not Guilty in a criminal case and then found to be Liable in a civil case and have a HUGE judgement returned against them that would put them in the poor house for the rest of their lives. Either way, your life is screwed up for the next 30 to 50 years. That's a hell of a price to have to pay for a "bad ***" looking gun to impress some of your friends. :?

Perhaps the non-believers should read a few books and articles by Massad Ayoob and a few other experienced firearms experts who have considerable courtroom experience. But, NAH, they probably wouldn't believe them either. So just let them believe what they want to believe. They will be the ones who have to pay the price for not listening to people who tried to tell them better.
 
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