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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I got the O/U bug and the price was right. This is one of the Khan Arthemis guns seems to be 2005 production. Now I'm trying to find out what I'm missing here. The folks on these boards seem to have nothing but bad things to say about them, yet that has not been my experience at all with this gun. Its fit and finish were more than I expected, the wood is a nice turkish walnut in a satin finish and the gun point and shoulders well for me. The action is still a bit stiff, but the gun is new and I've only got about 75 rounds through it. All I can report at this time is that it hit where it was pointed and went bang every time. I had none of the problems or apparent defects reported by others. Could it be that they got their act together or did I just get lucky?
 

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Would take a lot of time and space to respond to some of your observations so I'm not going to attempt it other than some "filtering" is generally de rigeur when reading over posts/replies. Main thing is that you are satisfied and it works well for you. I also own an "econo" O/U and find it to perform quite well as my primary trap gun and it seems to meet my needs quite admirably. Only fly in the ointment is that if spare parts are needed down the road, could be challenging to get them though I've seen the same thing happen with some higher end import guns as well. Have fun and safe shooting.
 

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I won a 28ga Arthemis Supreme in a local club raffle about 2 years ago. I've had it out a few times, and put maybe 500 rounds through it.

Ugly as sin, and it looks like it was finished by students in shop class, but it has mechanical triggers, and appears to be reasonably well built. The top barrel is very hard to get the chokes in and out of... I think it's bored a few thousandths off - bad enough that it actually cracked a choke! I had a joy of a time getting that one out.

I wouldn't ever BUY one, but for the low price, it appears to be much better made than the russian budget models (Rem Spartan for example).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I got this reply from Khan when I inquired as to quality and build procedures.

"Dear Sir,

I can give you some important points about our shotgun

*All our chokes our good for lead and steel shot.
*Turkish guns are using the famous Turkish walnut as a standard but the others are using lower grade materials.
* The steel parts, nearly %98 of those made by 4140 grade (including the Barrel.)
*Firing pins are high grade steel.
*Our guns are also passing the hard American SAAMI+ tests.It has designed to satisfy the standards of SAAMI+.( SAAMI+ is 4 times increased standard comparing to SAAMI tests.)

According to all those features you can use your shotgun with contentment

Best regards

PELIN ILGUN
Commercial Manager Asistant
TEL : +90 216 457 72 74
FAX : +90 216 457 72 71
MAIL TO: [email protected]
www.khanshotguns.com
"

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I must admit, they are customer responsive. I got this response today from the big guy there.

Dear Sir,

Thanks a lot for your interest and knowledge about the KHAN line. Before answering your question I want to share an idea with you. ı think it can be a good idea to open a "Khan" group in "www.shotgunworld.com " to have more detailed and specific conversations about our lines. If you can support us for this issue you can have a lot of support from our marketing team for the your gun and many other things.

First of all The lower barrel dent issue had been discussed with Mossberg and many other people and it is very vlear that it is a misusage issue and mainly it is a fault that is being done mostly by the sales person. If you can not cock you gun by pushing the top lever properly the firing pins will stay outside and it will create this dent. In any case just to take some precautions we have made some changes in our mechanism and by now it will not be possible even there is a misusage.

Secondly the Century's Centurion model is not made by Khan but by CFS which is another Turkish manufacturer.

For you good feedbacks about Khan I really appreciate and I repeat my proposal about a KHAN talk group. We are at the stage of creating a new contratct for KHAN distribution in USA after the bad trial with Legacy Sports.

Waiting your reply

Best Regards

BURAK ILGUN
COMMERCIAL MANAGER " KHAN"
TEL : +90 216 457 72 74
FAX : +90 216 457 72 71
MAIL TO : [email protected]
www.khanshotguns.co
[/b]
 

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Hey, wasn't Kubla Kahn the bad guy in "Wee Willie Winkie"?

Most of you pups are way too young to know about that.

Don't know anything about the O/U. A guy came to the club with a Kahn autoloader a couple of weeks ago. It went bang, but it would not eject anything he shot. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR is very true when it comes to guns.
 

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drsfmd said:
I won a 28ga Arthemis Supreme in a local club raffle about 2 years ago. I've had it out a few times, and put maybe 500 rounds through it.

Ugly as sin, and it looks like it was finished by students in shop class, but it has mechanical triggers, and appears to be reasonably well built. The top barrel is very hard to get the chokes in and out of... I think it's bored a few thousandths off - bad enough that it actually cracked a choke! I had a joy of a time getting that one out.

I wouldn't ever BUY one, but for the low price, it appears to be much better made than the russian budget models (Rem Spartan for example).
I'll take the russian Baikal any day. Far fewer problems. Never had a choke bore problem and the gun is built like a tank. Very few complaints from those who own them. Read the Baikal/Spartan forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have also seen the Khan autoloader and was not impressed. The O/U though is a different animal. Few autoloaders impress me though, I like the A5s and 1100s and really thats about it. I don't think I'd own one though. I see the khan as a step above the Stoeger and on par with Spartan. More featured than Spartan though. I know these turk guns will improve over time. The Turks seem seriously comitted to the American market and from what they wrote to me above, they seem more than willing to make product improvements based upon our suggestions and are open to feedback. Thats alot more than can be said of most gun makers.
 

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I have a 2005 production 20 gauge Khan Arthemis. The workmanship is decent for the price, but the checkering is not well executed. I have put around 700 rounds through the gun so far without any problems. No problems changing chokes either. My sporting clays scores are about the same with the Khan as with my 20 gauge Remingtom 1100, so it appears to shoot where it's aimed. For a $400 gun it's not all that bad.
 

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From what I've read and the examples I've seen in the stores - the "problem" with Khans seems to be the inconsistancy. I'll see one that looks pretty nice and the next one looks really cheap. Makes me wonder about the internals. This strikes me as a quality control issue rather than anything inherently wrong in the design and probably not in the material. It's good to see Khan seems to be responsive and serious about competing in the US market. I'm certain in time they'll become a reasonable choice in the lower-middle price range but for now I'd prefer a Baikal (own one and love it). I'd take it's pretty much a given that lower priced O/Us will have some compromises in their production, be it fit'n'finish, materials, manufacturing process, expected longevity, etc. The key question will always be - is this or any other gun suitable for how you intend to use it. I suspect most casual users will be fairly happy with an inexpensive O/U if it fits them - hardcore shooters and collectors, probably not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Geezer:

That seems to be the consensus on all the bargain models regardless of origin. The materials are good, the design is good and the question is in fit and finish. If it was finished and inspected by Mr. Master gunsmith, you got a good one like mine. If he was at lunch and apprentice number three got this one out the door, you may have issues. I know these companies are now realizing that the American market is really quite discerning and we have alot more choices than most other markets. From the looks of it, they mean to take us seriously and deliver a quality product. If they do this, and do it well, at a reasonable price, no reason at all why we shouldn't buy them.

From my perspective, I'm sorta mad about the situation because I've now gotten the bug for a Citori and I just can't justify it until the khan shoots itself loose. The problem is that does not seem likely any time soon.
 

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As far as I know all the inexpensive guns are imported and the primary advantage is labor costs. Cheap labor can be both the benefit and the bane of produced goods. It keeps costs down but it may also be reason not to invest in the machinary and processes necessary to manufacture a product of a consistant quality.

Of course many of these companies have now been adopted by well known nameplates. Baikal by Remington, Huglu by CZ and Khan by Mossberg While these products may become better suited to the American market they will almost certainly go up in price and lose the "qualities" that made them bargains. When I bought my Baikal they were known for being butt ugly but built like tanks. Having more time than money I didn't mind working on the wood because the machanicals were sound and made the effort worthwhile Generally the new Spartans seem better looking than the old Baikals - but they cost more too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree. The wood on my Khan is fantastic and the steel is not bad. I do like the Baikals and might opt for Spartan in a 20ga. Now I do agree that as domestic big name companies start private labeling these guns, the quality, and price will go up.
 

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When I bought my Baikal I did pay less than I would have paid on it's Spartan counterpart. To the best I can remember I paid about $50.00 less. That price includes sales tax.

I have looked at a lot of Spartans since then. I really can't say they are any different looking than my Baikal.

The longer I own that Baikal the more I like it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I kind of feel the same way about my Khan. The more I handle and shoot it, the more I like it. I might try a Baikal too. At these prices no reason not to get both.
 

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in response to the Baikal/Spartan people out there, i had a totally different experience. the one i shot was indeed built like a tank and it also felt like i was putting a mule to my shoulder (in kick and balance). the one i shot was pre remington so i dont know the deal now.

i am looking at the khan and the lanbers. i recently visited both sites and both impressed me. any more info would be great!
 

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I'll take the Baikal /Spartan over the Khan any day. The Khans might be better looking but the Baikals have far less problems.

Like others on this site I have found them with defects still in the box. The issue with the Turkish guns seems to be quality control. Too many bad ones are getting past the inspectors or they just aren't getting inspected. So it appears to be a crap shoot. Some guys get lucky and get a good one others get burnt. At this point the only Turkish gun I would buy is the Dehaan and its not because a Huglu is necessarily a better gun than a Khan but rather the quality control that Dehaan has chosen to incorporate in their merchandizing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree with the quality control issue, but the final arbiter is always the buyer. I recall a time though that Japanese cars were laughed at as being cheap and rattle traps just waiting to fall apart. Now, thats not the case. The turk guns will get better as the expanding market demands that they get better. Khan is certainly taking steps in the right direction.

I too like the baikal, but it does not fit me as well. That is a subjective thing that will vary between individuals. Thus my advice, don't buy sight unseen and try several different models in your price range.

I was also once told that a Bushmaster was a cheap knockoff of a colt and that Wolf ammo would blow up my gun. 10k rounds later and my Bushmaster still eats a steady diet of wolf with no problem. I figure if anyone can break this Khan its me. I continue to try. Another 100 rounds this week though without a hitch. I will advise when something breaks.
 
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