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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why is this happening?
You're lying, it can't be done.15.88%
The gun works better for you then any another.00.00%
It's the .742 over bore/long forcing cones/percision made gun.317.65%
A combination of shells/gun/fit.1376.47%
It can't be done, you're lying00.00%
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The 1 oz vs 1 1/8 oz controversy seem to be slowing down so.....

It's a quartering teal going away at 50 yards. It's breaking in a very solid manner [not a split] on a regular basis.

The .005 pattern looks like a typical .005 at 20 yards would. I haven't patterned in at 50.

Fiocchi 1 oz @ 1250 32" barrel w/Briely choke
 

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When fooling around and seeing how far we could let the targets get out of the house, I've broken low seven skeet targets just before they hit the ground (which is about a 60 yard shot) with #9's, and they have broken with authority... through Tula chokes (which are negative constriction)... so yes, it absolutely CAN be done.
 

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I recall reading 10 yrs ago that Michael McIntosh--the gun writer-- was saying that w/ modern shotshells, that very little choke was needed.He was an advocate of .000(Cyl) and .015(Lt Mod) in a fixed choke 2 barrel gun.

We have a Make a Break at one of the clubs w/ a 70+ yd bird as the #7 target.I have broken it w/ Lt Mod, more than once.

One of my hunting guns is choked .005/.017 and I have dropped piles of doves in Argentina w/ that .005 choke...out to 50 yds.

At Nationals , I spoke w/ the Beretta Gallery gunsmith--I was drooling over SO 5's-- and he thought that the barrels by Krieghoff were the best in the business, off the shelf, and that top barrel guys could not tweek them very much.(He did NOT know I shot a K 80.)
 

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I didn't vote, because you did not list the option that I think is correct, which is"

"Yes, it can be done, but not as consistently as with a tighter choke."

All shotgun patters have a Gaussian distribution. That means that the patters are denser in the center, and less dense on the fringes. If you are good enough to hit the target with the center of your pattern, it will be dense enough to break the target. However, with .005 constriction at 50 yd, the dense center is very, very small, and if you are just a little bit off the target it becomes a matter of luck whether the target will break or not.

With a tighter choke, the dense center will be larger, giving you a small but significant margin of error. Over the long run, your results will be better with a tighter choke.

So it comes down to this: can you always hit the target with the very center of your pattern? Well, maybe you can, but I can't, and our new National Champion Dan Carlyle can't, and Digweed can't.
 

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Seamus O'Caiside said:
I didn't vote, because you did not list the option that I think is correct, which is"

"Yes, it can be done, but not as consistently as with a tighter choke."

With a tighter choke, the dense center will be larger, giving you a small but significant margin of error. Over the long run, your results will be better with a tighter choke.
That is my experience, when I changed to tighter chokes my consistency when up on longer targets, very noticable.

...... our new National Champion Dan Carlyle can't, and Digweed can't.
How do you know this ??
 

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Seamus O'Caiside said:
ClayTargetKiller said:
...... our new National Champion Dan Carlyle can't, and Digweed can't.
How do you know this ??
Are they human?
Yes.
Therefore, they can't always do it.
According to the GD website he has a 95% career scoring average, a 96% 2006 avg., 6 perfect rounds, 4 world records and 15 world titles. "maybe he couldn't do it always" but I would believe he could hold up to his average. Afterall it is only 50 yards for him. 8)

Quod Erat Demonstrandum
:roll: whatever :roll:
 

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The question is whether George could and if any one could, he could, but it will be a cold day in a lot of places before you see George use .005 choke on anything, probably for a reason. The reason would be that he thinks it takes more choke to consistently break long targets than .005. The real issue isn't "can", it is consistency and consistency on long targets requires choke. Even though David killed Goliath with a rock, the Israelite army didn't throw away their swords, spears and bows.
Dave
 

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Seamus is right with the answer: "Yes, it can be done, but not as consistently as with a tighter choke."

When it comes to chokes, I've tried all sorts of methods:

1) changing them for each presentation

This seemed to be too fussy and I'd have brain cells devoted to wondering if I'd gotten the choice right instead of just focusing on the target.

2) using open chokes most of the time (CYL and SKEET)

Like Snowbound is finding out, open chokes will break targets out further than we might otherwise think they would. However, I found that the breaks weren't quite as consistent on longer targets as they were when I changed to tighter chokes (although it wasn't too far off). The other problem was that for middle and long range targets, the lack of target crushing density would prevent me from having full confidence in how I was shooting. Nothing says "Your on it!" than an inkball.

3) using tight chokes all of the time (IM or FULL)

More confidence for most targets, but still missing the occasional close one (I seemed to have a particular issue with close to mid-range quartering rabbits with tight chokes).

4) using LM for almost everything
This is my current default for most events. I'll keep LM in both barrels and only change out for very long or very close targets.

With all that being said, I'm seriously reconsidering trying to go back to just shooting IM in both barrels for '08. Over the last couple months, I've shot some FITASC and some very challenging targets using mostly tight chokes. My shooting has been better with tighter chokes, and I don't seem to be giving up much (anything) on the closer stuff right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Post script: I could not break those 50 yards targets with any remote degree of consistency using a .005 choke but in a different O/U.

I shot the other O/U pretty darn well but this [50 yd .005 breaks] seems to be a "gun/choke" issue
 

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There is a much better chance to break a 50 yard target with .005 choke if you use a very light, slower load. I can do it much more often with 1100 FPS one oz. loads than I can with 1 and 1/8th oz Supersports at 1300+ FPS (using a .005 choke). The very light slower loads patter MUCH better than the faster heavier loads do with a lot less choke. About the tightest choke you ever need on the 1100 FPS loads is I Mod (.025). Any tighter than that and the pattern begins to degrade because of bounce out going thru the choke portion of the barrel.
 

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I'm no expert, but I'm better than average. I start each round of sporting clays choked cyl/cyl, and keep that as long as I can. At a recent shoot, I estimate that I shot 60% of the presentations with cyl/cyl or cyl/Sk. I used IC for a few straightway trap shots that looked longer than 50 yards, and mod for a 40-yard crossing rabbit because those little devils are hard to break. I'll almost always use cyl for targets out to 35 yards. My final score was 80 out of 100, and my misses were due to inconsistency (shooting 9 of 10 targets at a station) or targets that I just couldn't figure out. All the targets I hit were broken decisively into a lot of pieces.

Tom
 

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I too will side with Professor Seamus on this one.

I have shot full rounds with a skeet or IC and was surprised that I hit as many long ones.

Generally speaking a good shot can get away with it more than a duffer like me as there is often a central core of the pattern that is a little denser than the fringe and I probably break most of my targets with the fringe.
 

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My vote would go to the option: Yes it can be done if you point the gun to the right place.

I'm not a choke twiddler and shoot everything with LM in both barrels but I used to use IC/Mod. One place I shoot regularly sets up 60+yd targets, and with good shells an IC choke will break them properly if you do your bit right.
 
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