[Eschmidt7286]

Hey everyone, I just picked up a post war 16 gauge Elsie (SN FWS; associated with the Marlin buyout of Hunter Arms post 1945) and I’m very eager to go shoot it. My excitement has been dampened a bit reading opinions on what loads to shoot out of older guns. What’s a bit confusing is that this gun isn’t that old, at least not compared to many of these guns. I have 2 3/4”, 1 oz, 1165 FPS (2 3/4 DE) shells in both 8 and 6 shot. Am I safe to shoot these? Really want to shoot a few familiarization rounds of trap before going after birds in the field. Thanks!

 

[scooter123]

Post WWII should be perfectly safe with modern ammo. I shoot with a fellow who is a fairly serious collector and according to him the "fluidic" steels made after 1915 were as good as modern steels in barrels that were a bit heavier than guns today because of experience at the time dictated a conservative approach was the only way to insure safety.

Note, one thing you do want to be careful about is the Chamber Length. Was a time in the early half of the 20th century when 2 1/2 inch chambers were the standard and 2 3/4 were around but not the gold standard like today. So, double check what is actually stamped on the barrels and if it isn't legible have your chambers checked by a gunsmith.

 

[geometric]

I have LC Smiths in 20, 12 & 10 ga.. Some were made before 1913. I have never shot special low pressure ammo in any of them but they all have good steel barrels & are in excellent condition!

 

[Swampy16]

I’m pretty sure all the Marlin 16’s were 2-3/4”. With any double gun you should have it looked by someone who knows them. There a screw under your trigger tang that tightens the stock. If this is loose you could crack it if it’s not cracked already. And the stock won’t feel loose. I’d have that looked at as well unless you’re confident you won’t “buggar” the screw heads. I had a post war 16, they’re built like a brick **** house.

 

[Eschmidt7286]

Thanks guys. It’s 2 3/4” in the chamber, I did have that checked prior to purchase. The screws are a bit “buggered” already, only paid $450 for it, most of which was a trade for an XD45 that I never shot. The stock is in decent shape and the barrels have a nice bell tune to them. I haven’t checked the triggers yet (hence wanting to shoot it). It’s certainly not a valuable collectors piece at this point, but it’s a sweet little gun and still seems to function very well. The thing snaps tight better then my new O/U. I figured the newer S/Ss were a bit beefier then the early models.

 

[Eschmidt7286]

 

[BobK]

Shoot it to your heart's content with any 16-ga. modern lead or bismuth shell, but DO NOT use steel shot in those older barrels. They were not made to handle steel or HEVI shot or similar tungsten loads.

 

[Swampy16]

Try to post some close ups of the back of the lock plates, where they meet the wood.

 

[Drew Hause]

Have you been on the LCSCA site?
Home - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc. (clubexpress.com)

Lots of information here, including appropriate loads
FAQ / Tech Library - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc. (clubexpress.com)

It is likely that a Research Letter would document to where the gun was shipped, and possibly the original purchaser

Research Letters - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc.

lcsca.clubexpress.com

 

[Eschmidt7286]

Have you been on the LCSCA site?
Home - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc. (clubexpress.com)

Lots of information here, including appropriate loads
FAQ / Tech Library - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc. (clubexpress.com)

It is likely that a Research Letter would document to where the gun was shipped, and possibly the original purchaser

Research Letters - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc.

lcsca.clubexpress.com

Drew, I joined the other day and sent my research letter request in yesterday!

 

[Eschmidt7286]

 

[Drew Hause]

The head of the stock needs to be examined for cracks. This may only be oil staining, but is worrisome

 

[Eschmidt7286]

The head of the stock needs to be examined for cracks. This may only be oil staining, but is worrisome

View attachment 44145

I see what you’re talking about. I just looked closer at that and it seems to reflect light weirdly and come and go as I move the gun around. I don’t see any sign of cracking there when I look closely, there is some oil discoloration every where the woods butts up against metal.

 

[Eschmidt7286]

Just got back from the range - it shot beautifully, I went 19/25 on trap which I was quite happy with.

I did have two misfires where the primer had a tiny dent but not enough to ignite. Same trigger both times (right barrel, front trigger). Open and close the action and it goes bang. I’m thinking a gummy firing pin is to blame, I think I saw in another thread a guy was having a similar issue. Not significant enough to make me regret purchasing, that’s for sure.

Is a thorough firing pin cleaning a job for a gun smith? I assume yes.

 

[Drew Hause]

Removal of the lockplates (with the proper screwdriver bits) affords access to the firing pins BUT stock removal and full disassembly is only for someone with the expertise to do so. Smith guns are easy to get apart but very hard to reassemble. And BTW the left forward lockplate screw appears to need tightening.
Look over the Disassembly and Reassembly section in the FAQs
FAQ / Tech Library - L.C. Smith Collectors Association, Inc. (clubexpress.com)

 

[Eschmidt7286]

Thanks Drew, you’ve been a big help, I saw you on the LCSCA site, you really know these guns. Looking forward to getting my research letter!

 

[Swampy16]

Drew has helped me many times with the Smiths I’ve owned over the years. Post pics of the back of the lock plates, where they’re oval shaped (from the side).

 

[Pine Creek/Dave]

Eschmidt7286,

Even with the gun being made later with the 2 3/4" Chambers I always recommend you use the RST or Poly SpredR shells in your 16 Gauge L.C. Smith. Keep the pressure low using 1200 FPS shells and below. The gun will last many many life times. Your gun probably has M/F choked barrels and the SpredR shells will work real well in your gun, throwing real nice patterns for bird hunting and shooting Clays. Definitely have the gun checked over by a competent Master Gun Maker prior to using it. Many people have been using the Nitro 2 3/4" shells in their L.C. Smith 16 gauge guns for ever. I do not recommend it because the 2 1/2" SpredR shells will prolong your guns life indefinitely if you clean and store your gun properly. I have L.C. Smith 16 gauge guns from just about every era, when RST came out with their shells for the Classic American double guns, I started using them and sold my MEC reloader. Your gun was probably engineered for the modern 2 3/4" Nitro shells, and you will probably have no problems shooting them, if your gun was taken care of properly. Have the gun checked out and use the RST SpredR shells in her and you should be set to go.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

 

[Eschmidt7286]

Eschmidt7286,

Even with the gun being made later with the 2 3/4" Chambers I always recommend you use the RST or Poly SpredR shells in your 16 Gauge L.C. Smith. Keep the pressure low using 1200 FPS shells and below. The gun will last many many life times. Your gun probably has M/F choked barrels and the SpredR shells will work real well in your gun, throwing real nice patterns for bird hunting and shooting Clays. Definitely have the gun checked over by a competent Master Gun Maker prior to using it. Many people have been using the Nitro 2 3/4" shells in their L.C. Smith 16 gauge guns for ever. I do not recommend it because the 2 1/2" SpredR shells will prolong your guns life indefinitely if you clean and store your gun properly. I have L.C. Smith 16 gauge guns from just about every era, when RST came out with their shells for the Classic American double guns, I started using them and sold my MEC reloader. Your gun was probably engineered for the modern 2 3/4" Nitro shells, and you will probably have no problems shooting them, if your gun was taken care of properly. Have the gun checked out and use the RST SpredR shells in her and you should be set to go.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Dave,

thanks for the advice. Can you tell me, and pardon my ignorance, what’s considered a nitro load? This is what I bought, mostly because it’s the smallest load size and dram equivalent i could find. Would this be considered nitro? Also, these BPT rounds say they use a wad that absorbs recoil, which I would imagine is better on the gun. Thoughts?

 

[Drew Hause]

That is the load which would have been indicated on the hang tag that came with the gun; 1 oz. 2 3/4 Dr.Eq..

"Nitro" loads just refer to smokeless powder which was in general use in the U.S. by the mid-1890s.
Unfortunately, "Nitro" was chosen by the marketing folks to promote what became "Magnum" loads.

Jay Meneffe sold PolyWad > 2 years ago, no shells have been made since, and it is unclear if any will be in the future.
RST is still very much in business and trying to source components, but very few shells are being produced right now, and they have no 16g

16 Gauge - LIMITED DUE TO COMPONENT ISSUE

16 Gauge - LIMITED DUE TO COMPONENT ISSUE

www.rstshells.com

BTW: you might enjoy the 16g Society site also. We've been moaning about the unavailability of shells and components for 2 years
16ga.com ~ Index