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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I am going to jump in on this topic and ask for some advise on the hugle o/u's. I am pretty much in the dark on this brand and have just recently become familiar whith them mostly through reading on this site and checking out the Texas importers web site. What is the quality of these guns? I know that is an open ended question but such things as fit and finish, triggers, dependability and such. I have a few 525 citori's in 16 ga and an older blued red label in 20. I hunt grouse in NH and do a little range shooting. I have always wanted a decent 28 Ga and I would like to pick up a 410 for my wife but was always put off be the prices of each in the more well known brands. Any advise I could get would be most appreciated and helpfull in making a decision.
 

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I own several SXS CZ Huglus and can honestly say they are a bargain for the money. I also own a Browning BSS that is clearly superior to the Huglus, but that is what I would expect for the price. All my Huglus have needed a little internal polishing and trigger work to suit my idea of what I want in a shotgun. I have a DeHaan SGr SXS 12 ga on order and understand that a lot of the hand fitting and trigger work is done on these higher price point guns. I can't say for sure about the O/U's. but on the SXS Huglus I can see much improved internal heat treating and fitting than what I observed on the earlier guns. The external fit and finish of the guns is actually superior to many more expensive guns.
I would expect that the quality would fall somewhat short of your Browning and Ruger, but would provide you with a strong, reliable gun at an attractive price.
 

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If money is no object then there are better guns to buy.

But if you are looking for a new sub $1000 O/U or SXS, then CZ-USA or TR Imports is the way to go.

If you would like a built to order with your dimensions O/U or SXS starting at about $1500 then call Mark Dehaan. No place else can you get a custom gun for that kind of money.

The Huglus are certainly not the finest shotgun in the world, but they are a TREMENDOUS value for money.
 

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Ditto on the sub $1000 gun. You can search for CZ guns on the recommendations page and find mostly two extremes: love them, hate them. The Dr. is being kind with his words, and to be honest, this IS the "I love my..." forum. Check through some of these:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135041

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=154940

The second one is concerning "Cheap, good guns". There are those out there who will only suggest an expensive gun because it will last a lifetime of heavy shooting. I'm fairly confident that my CZ will last a lifetime because I don't shoot 400 rounds every week. I shoot the occasional clays on the back forty and use it for hunting. If I subscribed to the first philosophy, I'd be saving every penny to buy a BMW or Mercedes. I don't need to drive 60 miles at 80 MPH to get to work, I live 2 miles away in town and own a Honda (but I won't buy a Yugo ;)). Know what you need and then choose the gun to fit the bill.

I like my CZs and would recommend one to someone who is looking for a nice upland gun that will work well and won't break the bank. If you haven't looked through some of the online reviews, here's a link to them: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=172654.

CDNN is still having a sale on all gauges of Woodcock Deluxe for $789, page 42. I bought my 12 ga. Partridge from them and am quite happy with it.

David
 

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I currently own and shoot several CZ, DeHaan and Huglu made guns ranging from the base models up to a couple of higher end custom models as well as a pretty good representation of guns both production and custom grade from some of the more highly esteemed Gun Makers from Belgium, Japan, Italy, Spain, and the good old USA and I personally find the Huglu made guns to be an excellent value as well as fine shooting and functioning guns. Like anything else the more you spend the nicer they get. I recently bought DeHaan and Huglu custom grade guns costing about the same as your Citoris and they are now a couple of my favorite guns and compare very favorably with High Grade guns costing 2 to 3 times as much, they are of very high quality and an untouchable value from what I've seen (IMHO).
I respectfully disagree with "drsfmd" statement, I think you'll get a more accurate accessment of Huglu made guns and their performance from the group of guys that currently own and shoot them regularly than you will from the same handful of "Huglu Haters" that have had a bad experience with some of the early guns (which I also had) and just can't get over it. I too had a few problems with some Huglu made guns 5 or more years ago from CZ and am the first to admit that it was very disappointing but CZUSA took care of the problems and even went the extra mile doing additional tuning work on my guns at no extra cost, they even completely replaced a very plain-jane 28 ga. piece of junk CZ Bobwhite that I had purchased with a much higher grade gun that they had on hand. CZUSA's and TRImport's warranty and customer service is excellent with a full 5 year warranty and they both assured me that Huglu was working aggressively to correct their early on Quality Assurance issues on their production guns and they certainly have from what I've seen. TRImports even offers a return policy if you're not totally satisfied with your purchase.
Huglu seems to do an especially good job on their small bore/sub-gauge guns. For a truly unbiased opinion on their sub gauge guns you might want to read these independant gun tests by the online British publication "Shooting Times" http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/shotgu ... eview.html
and http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/158554 ... eview.html
and also http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/301630 ... eview.html
The 103DE and the Europa has the same basic action and quality as Huglu's other production O/U guns including the .410 and 28 gauges. These test/reviews will give you an unbiased opinion of the Huglu guns and I think you'll find that "Shooting Times" test results and opinions will be more in line with the CZ/Huglu lovers than the CZ/Huglu Haters. Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
THIS IS GREAT INFORMATION. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH "CHUCK" FROM TR IMPORTS AND HE WAS VERY HELPFULL ALSO.
 

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Make sure you post up some pics of your new gun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the advise. As I also posted this question on the opinion section at the advise of "drsfmd" I have gotten the good, the bad and the ugly coments on these guns. Everything from "complete junk" to

"These guns are made by illiterates in a third world country, and the quality is what you would expect from such a place.

Honestly, the first and finish on these is better than most Turkish guns, but like many cheap imports, they suffer from improperly hardened steel, which causes them to wear very quickly. In particular, the sears and hammers wear prematurely, and can lead to misfires or doubling.

Many have reported barrel regulation problems.

The triggers are heavy and gritty."

Folks have also sung the praise of a nice gun for a moderate price. I suspect the truth is, as it usually is, somewhere in the middle. I do get a little "urked" at comments that revolve simply around cost. Such as "if you can afford a better gun, or a used better gun, buy it". I can afford a much better gun, and have many quite expensive guns, but to me that is not the issue. I can run out and buy a $5000 shotgun if I wish, but I would rather try and find a nice gun for a moderate price. My expensive guns do not give me pleasure simply because of what they cost, I like them because the perform well. Maybe I cannot find an inexpensive O/U that will perform as well as an expensive one, maybe I can. The search and research is the fun, and getting advise from well meaning and experienced folks is also a fun part of it.

I'll keep looking, and reading all the good advise, and will report on my decision when I make one and "pull the trigger" on a new gun. Thanks.
 

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Steve....Glad you are getting a good education in "all things Huglu".

Being totally honest, many of the early Huglu guns brought into the US DID have problems. Gritty triggers, firing pin problems and some other things were not uncommon complaints in Huglu guns imported 5 to 10 years ago, especially the older ones.

As we all know, first impressions can be lasting ones.

That said, ANY objective observer will admit that there seems to have been a DRAMATIC improvement in the last 5 or 6 years as observed from improved reviews, and far few actual complaints by owners on gun boards. (As opposed to comments made by "never owners" and "had one 8 years ago owners").

As you noted, even some of the Huglu detractors will ocassionally grudgingly offer some nice comments about the fit and finish vis a vis other sub $1000 guns.

In fact, I was turned on to the DeHaan Huglus by a fellow on these boards who after assuring me (in the general forum) that there was no such thing as a sub $1500 new SXS that was worth owning then went on to send me a PM saying that if I refused to spend a suitable sum on a SXS and insisted on spending less than $1000 then I should check out the DeHaan Forum and consider one of their guns.

So, can you buy a better shotgun? SURE! Can you spend less than $1000 and get a Huglu that is reliable, shoots where it should, looks great, handles well and properly maintained will last you a lifetime and maybe your kids lifetime too? ABSOLUTELY!

And just for grins you can buy a custom made to your dimensions Huglu with Grade III or better wood and KNOCKOUT engraving starting at about $1500. You'll find those Huglus at http://www.dhshotguns.com

Enjoy your search.

Whats not to LOVE?
 

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2few:

I have to say I really admire your tact, patience and diplomacy!! I know you are in sales and I'm sure you are damn good at it. By the way did you see the recipes that I posted?? They really make for very tasty goose, more like steak and the bacon wrapped skeered goose or duck is amazing. I'm just curious does anybody ever answer you on the 28 gauge society forum?? I seem to be invisible over there. I deleted my last post, I guess you gotta be in the club, kinda like the 16 gauge society forum. I did go back on the 28 gauge forum long enough to check out the picture of the last 28 ga. CZ Partridge that you mentioned, it a good deal for sure. Have a great Day!!
Don
 

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the PM. Sorry not to reply by the same method, but a month or so ago my computer and the SGW PM system got in a fight and while I can still receive them, I can't seem to send them so I am replying here. It may seem a little strange for me to openly say nice things about DeHaan guns here on the I Love MY CZ forum, but the CZ fans here are very kind to us DeHaan refugees from the days when there was a DeHaan Forum. And with the users here not objecting the mods seem willing to let us DeHaan fans toot our horns from time to time.

To answer your question....Actually I bought 3 DeHaans. But not the SGr models. Mark DeHaan used to import a limited line of the Huglu "stock" guns under his own banner...DeHaan Shotguns. I bought three of these stock guns in late '06 and early '07. Then I did a VERY STUPID thing (got involved with yet another woman....they always mess up my life) and was away from shooting for about a year. By the time I returned and had the $$$ to order my first SGr, Mark and Huglu had had a falling out and Mark temporarily stopped selling shotguns.

But happy days are here again and I have almost saved enough $$$ to order my first SGr. Would have been sooner, but 2 CZ full stock rifles and a Henry .357 levergun intervened...Had to have 'em. SxS shotguns, Full Stock rifles and leverguns. Can you tell I am a bit of a traditionalist?

The 3 Dehaans I bought have been great to me, though I am not a heavy shooter (hence my screen name) and none of them has much over 2500 rounds through them.

If you are interested in investigating the DeHaan Custom Deluxe shotguns, there was once a DeHaan Forum here and it is still saved in the archives. I was a frequent participant in the DeHaan Forum and if you would like, I'll be glad to run some searches in the archives and dig up a bunch of links about the SGr line for you. MANY members of SGW purchased SGr guns and there is a wealth of info on them in the archives.

A brief rundown.....Mark's "production" guns were only marginally different than the current CZ guns. The main difference being he only had about 4 models and when he received guns from Huglu he worked them over a bit himself, improving trigger pull and such things...basically "tuning" them before he shipped them.

The SGr lineup is made in Huglu's version of a custom shop. The SGrs that Mark imports are made to order to your dimensions so you are getting a true custom gun. Only the top most experienced gun makers at Huglu are allowed to work in the SGr shop. These guns come with astounding fit and finish (by any standards, not just those of inexpensive guns) and exceptionally close tolerances. They are offered in grade III, IV or V Turkish circassian walnut (sp). They are offered in several engraving patterns that range from very nice (s & W, I believe) to downright mindblowing...(check out the 5 pattern SGr engraving).

Frankly, were it not for my own stupidy (women many years my junior do that to me) I would have owned 2 or 3 SGrs by now. The other problem that has delayed me has been the argument between buying 2 or 3 case colored SXS with grade III wood and not too many options (creating a truly upscale collection of custom fitted field guns) or going whole hog on 1 gun....grade V wood, spare barrel set, engraving pattern 5 and a few nice options. I've finally settled that debate and will start building my 3 or perhaps 4 SGr set very shortly.

Again, if you would like me to do some research in the DeHaan archives, give me a yell and I'll be glad to assist.

Regards....2few
 

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stratoliner said:
2few:

I have to say I really admire your tact, patience and diplomacy!! I know you are in sales and I'm sure you are damn good at it. By the way did you see the recipes that I posted?? They really make for very tasty goose, more like steak and the bacon wrapped skeered goose or duck is amazing. I'm just curious does anybody ever answer you on the 28 gauge society forum?? I seem to be invisible over there. I deleted my last post, I guess you gotta be in the club, kinda like the 16 gauge society forum. I did go back on the 28 gauge forum long enough to check out the picture of the last 28 ga. CZ Partridge that you mentioned, it a good deal for sure. Have a great Day!!
Don
Thanks for the kind words Don! I AM capable of being considerably less diplomatic....you should have seen one of the fights I got into on the DeHaan forum! But I feel a little like a "guest" here in the CZ forum, so I try hard to "mind my Ps and Qs". One of these days (sooner rather than later) I am going to pick up a CZ 16 gauge and I'll probably jump in with both feet. Besides, I rather like drsfmd (Doc) and hope to eventually warm him up at least a little to our way of thinking.

I saw the recipes! Can't wait to try 'em. The bacon wrap sounds exceptional. The are a few Canadas lurking around here with my name on 'em and this year I'm going to eat 'em rather than breasting them and giving to friends.

The 28 gauge board is very much a "work in progress". As you probably know, its a very new board...only started in late May, I believe. One of the founders is BPGuy from here on SGW. Due to the type of board it is, it is not easy to locate by using a search engine and so most of the members have been recruited my friends who shoot the 28 ga, rather than just wandering in from the web. Since many of them know each other they can be a little tight knit. AND, they are seriously DEVOTED to their little guns. At times I think they view anyone who would shoot anything else with a little suspicion. But there are a bunch of good guys on there and I try to visit regularly, just to try to help keep some traffic moving. As the site gets bigger, with more "strangers" involved, I suspect it will become a lot more fun. Have you checked out the new section there for "stories"? Some really fun stuff there!

I used to spend a bit of time on the 16 gauge society board. In fact I went to one of their shoots. A REAL nice bunch of folks. But unlike here, people do tend to be a little more "standoffish" to newcomers there than here. Again, like the 28 gauge board, its a smaller group than here and the members tend to have been members for a while so it can take longer to "get to know" people there. If you like the 16, and I am becoming more and more fond of it, I urge you to attend one of their weekend shoots. Get to know a few of them face to face and you will quickly find yourself welcomed like long lost kinfolk, especially if you remember not to mention your 12s, 20s etc. Some of them tend do see any kind mention of any other gauge as a threat to the very existence of their favorite. Sometimes I can't say as I blame them. And of course, since my self inflicted disaster (mentioned in my previous post) I haven't been over there much. Need to get back though. They will have forgotten me, but I will get to one of their shoots and all will be well again.

Glad you checked out Jason's 28s. If you are ever in the market for a CZ, be it shotgun, rifle or pistol, I urge you to contact him. He's a great guy to do business with....I've bought 2 guns from him this summer.....He keeps a very sharp pencil, so feel free to negotiate with him, (especially for shotguns and rifles-his business is mostly pistols but his dealer agreement with CZ requires him to buy the full product line so he's always anxious to move his rifles and shotguns so as not to have too much money tied up sitting on the shelf.) and I really like the fact that he will open a box, send pics and let you see the actual gun you are interested in (much as TR Imports does with Huglu shotguns).

Thank you again for the kind words and recipes! If I was half as good a salesman as you say, I would be buying a gun ever week instead of every 6-8 weeks.

As always, it is a pleasure chatting with another fan of the guns I like so much.

Regards...2few
 

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2fewdaysafield said:
my computer and the SGW PM system got in a fight and while I can still receive them, I can't seem to send them
I had the same problem... and then I found that my sent box (which I didn't even know I had) was full... I purged old messages, and it worked fine... You may want to check it out.

Back on topic, there's nothing gruding about it... the quality of Huglu's *HAS* gotten a lot better... but they still have a long way to go. The Spanish went through this same process perhaps 30 years ago, and they make some very fine guns today. Perhaps Turkey will get there eventually as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
2few- Thanks for all your advise. I see that you mentioned "Jason" in your reply to Don as a CZ dealer. If I were going to purchase a CZ103D or DE would he be a good person to contact, and how? Thanks, Steve
 

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The Spanish and Huglu gun evolution reminds me a lot of the Japanese and Korean car manufacturing. Being ancient enough to remember the days that the only things we got from Japan was worthless junk trinkets, it has been fascinating to watch Japan become one of the premier car manufacturing nations in the world. Korean automotive development seems to be following the same path, but lagging about 20 years.
I think the Spanish shotgun manufacturing mirrors the Japanese automotive model and the Huglu's are on pace with the Korean development. I believe the Turkish having the Spanish to emulate will progress at a much faster rate and we are already seeing evidence of this. My 20 ga Ringneck was purchased used and was built in '05, my 16 ga Ringneck I recently purchased was built in '07. The 16 ga has improved firing pin design, better fitting and finishing of internal parts, and little rockwell hardness testing dimples throughout the internals. It looks like a tremendous amount of progress in just two years. I have a DeHaan SGr on order and fully expect it to have the same magnitude of improvement I have seen in my Ringnecks.
 

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1steve7301 said:
2few- Thanks for all your advise. I see that you mentioned "Jason" in your reply to Don as a CZ dealer. If I were going to purchase a CZ103D or DE would he be a good person to contact, and how? Thanks, Steve
Hi Steve,

Jason is a GREAT! guy to do business with for anything CZ. I've bought 2 full stocked rifles from him this summer and I heartily recommend him. He's a very small time, part time guy, but he loves the CZs and unlike most dealers is perfectly happy to email pictures of guns he has in stock, so you know what you are getting "wood-wise". He is also competitive with any of the discounters on price.

That said, he does not carry a large stock of shotguns. Check out this thread he maintains in the CZ Forumsite classifieds forum: http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=22422.0 or send him an email at [email protected] and ask him what he has in stock. If he has what you want, don't be afraid to "dicker" with him.

Sadly, I am not so familiar with the Huglu model numbers you listed...more familiar with the CZ model names.

I might also suggest you look at the CDNN catalog online (if you are not familiar with it let me know and I will send you a link where you can download it). CDNN is a large discounter and buyer of "closeouts" and has some truly amazing deals on CZ shotguns at the moment. They won't send pics or anything like that, but if price is important to you they are worth checking out.

Best...2few
 

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drsfmd said:
2fewdaysafield said:
my computer and the SGW PM system got in a fight and while I can still receive them, I can't seem to send them
I had the same problem... and then I found that my sent box (which I didn't even know I had) was full... I purged old messages, and it worked fine... You may want to check it out.

Back on topic, there's nothing gruding about it... the quality of Huglu's *HAS* gotten a lot better... but they still have a long way to go. The Spanish went through this same process perhaps 30 years ago, and they make some very fine guns today. Perhaps Turkey will get there eventually as well.
Doc,

Thanks for the suggestion on the PM system. I will give that a try.

I also thank you for the comparatively kind words about the Huglu guns. I realize they CAN be "hit or miss", though I think the "hit" ratio is improving at an excellent pace and is MILES above what it was 10 years ago.

In deference to your warnings about Huglu shotguns I will say that anyone contemplating a Huglu purchase should BE SURE to buy one that is branded by a known and trustworthy importer. I own 3 DeHaan Huglus and plan to buy more. I would also buy a CZ-USA Huglu because of my confidence in CZ-USA. I'm less familiar with TR Imports and while they come well recommended by people I respect on this board, I would feel obligated to do some more research on them before I bought a gun from them...not because I have heard anything bad, but because I am largely ignorant about TR Imports and feel anyone buying a Huglu should check out the reputation of the importer carefully before spending their hard earned cash on a Huglu.

Again Doc, thank you for your balanced opinion on the Huglu guns. You have proven yourself to be very different from the "Hysterical Huglu Haters" that one finds in abundance and that I had once mistaken you for. My opinion stands corrected. We still don't see quite "eye to eye" on these guns, but thats OK. I've learned that I should weigh your opinions carefully even if I find myself inclined to disagree with them.

Hope you found some excellent spots for the early goose season.

Regards...2few
 
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