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Having a situation- bought a shotgun from a dealer, filled out ATF info, did everything "by the book". Get a call from the dealer- "Oh, the gun I sold you needs to be returned because the gun owner's step son took it from him 3 months ago, traded it in on a different shotgun and now the original owner wants his shotgun back. Please return it and I will give you a refund. That way the original owner won't have to file paperwork on a stolen gun, have his stepson put injail, etc. And if you don;t, the original owner will file charges against his stepson, "they" will come get the gun from you, return it to the owner and you will be out your money"

My question- When the dealer traded weapons and ran it thru the "stolen weapons" directory and it came up clean, then sold it to me as a clean weapon, and I paid and passed ATF requirments, whose right? Can the original owner claim it was stolen after knowing all the events? Do I have any rights?

Or is this a Louisiana lawyer question? That's where this is happening.

Comments are appreciated. What would you do?

The price paid was half that of a shotgun like this here on Shotgun world- BTW, Remington 1100 Magnum, wood stock, great condition.

Thanks,
Carl
 

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I briefly read your post and this is what I see.. In montana, you dont have to beleive hIm.. But to be safe I would... If the atf picks it up, you will have recourse to collect from the one who stole it.. You will of course have to wait till he gets a job..From the sounds of it it could be some time... then you will need to have your lawer or the state, or county file on his wages etc, etc.. Go find the gun you want to replace it and tell the dealer to buy it for you.. We dont call for a stolen gun report on all the guns that come in unles they look suspicious.. We are not required to do so.. good luck, its not that unusual for a dealer to get in stolen goods, but stolen guns are only delt with by pretty ignorant thieves.. dave..
 

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I'd tell them to get lost, especially if you like the gun. How do you know the original owner is telling the truth anyway? Maybe he made the whole "step-son took the gun" story just because he's having second thoughts about trading it himself. I'd let the system take care of it. If he really want the gun back, then let him press charges the no-good theif stepson...if that's the true story.
 

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As I see it you are in the driver seat either way.

As mentioned you could have to give it back then again the whole thing may be made up.

In Az ALL used guns go through the pawn detail checking for stolen.
You might want to spend 5 minutes and call a reputable dealer to find out what proceedures are in effect in your area. then you would know what is best.

But there is wisdom in both of the previous posts.

What I liked best is that you did everything right so as Doubleeye said. Call the dealer!!! and tell him you will fiind a gun you want and he can buy it and as soon as you have located the one you want you will get back to him.
I would in fact let him buy me a new one of my choice or take a hike and play his game.

I have been a dealer for 30 plus years and have been bitten a couple of times but never had to call and get a gun back from an individual IF I HAD DONE MY PART RIGHT TO START WITH.

I had the pawn police call me after nearly two months had passed of a sale to tell me they needed a gun back as it was one stolen from a batch going to the FBI.
I had to give the name of the person who bought it but I told them I was going to call the individual, which I did, and tell him not to GIVE it back as we followed the law. If they wanted it back they would have to pay him and that is what I told him on the phone.
They never did call him and he still has the gun. Several years have gone by now since that so I don't think he is in any danger of them picking it up.

There is also the point as posted by fffg give it back and get out of any possible involvement and sleep better as a result. I never could deny a good fight.

I think you are in a good position and would be more than a little surprised if you hear anything from any of that whole nest of cockroaches.

JMIO

UF
 

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If I were you I would take it back and get the refund that the dealer offered.

I see no reason that the dealer would fabricate a story like this and you are getting your money back.

I just think that what it is, is a case of a theft occuring within the family of the original owner of the gun and the dealer probably knows the guy and is willing to help him straighten it out without the law being involved.

The only snag I can see is that it is already in his aqusition/disposition book. I don't know how he intends to cover that track.

But the bottom line--at least as far as you are concerned, is that you get a refund. Perhaps you can get another gun out of this, even one you like better for the same price...... 8)
 

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I too would be inclined to have you tell them, "Stick it". Someone traded it, you bought it and it is your gun. If they want it back they will have to go through the legal recourse to get it. Unfortunately, what will probably happen is you will have to pay through your backend to go through the legal process of obtaining the money to refund you. If you got a good deal on the gun, you will probably end up spending 5 times that on legal fees. While it might feel like you are caving in a bit, I would probably just return the gun, get my refund and take my money and my business to another dealer. Albeit it may not directly be his fault, but that would be the last time I dealt with him. He should have told the previous owner that he has already sold it and that the previous owner would have to take legal recouse to get it back, not let the sh*t roll down hill to you, by telling you to give it back or take recourse for having bought a stolen gun from him (although the latter part may be where the problem lies). Good luck and see what others have to say because I am no scholar.
 

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Yeah, you could tell them to stick it.

But, what kind of money are we talking about? A few hundred, a few thou?

A "deal" on a shotgun is not worth the hassle or quagmire that this can descend into.

Maybe the dealer is an a-hole, maybe not, but life is too short to fight about this kind of crap and wind up with lawyer's bills (min $250/hr around here).

Here's another nightmare scenario: Suppose you keep the gun and the guy does file charges and that makes the gun "hot."

Now, what happens to you 5 yrs down the road when you want to sell it?

Whole thing ain't worth it.

HOWEVER the dealer's a$$ is on the line to - if this gun is reported "stole" it augers not well for him. He ought to sweeten the deal for you, since it helps him also

If I were you I would get myself out of a potential mess as quickly as possible
 

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I'd get out from under it now. The reality is if that gun is reported stolen you're going to have to give it up with no reimbursement. You'll then have to go after the dealer to make you whole. Why not just avoid the headache up front? Now if you don't believe the story and want this guy to officially file the report (which would be illegal if it was false)than more power to you. Seems to me the farther I get on the more important "headache reduction" becomes.
 

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If I were you I would contact a lawyer and local law enforcement to see what the law says. I for one would demand charges be filed after all it is a stolen gun isn't it? I would also demand the gun dealer give me some sort of compensation for my hassle and headache.

I also would never deal with this guy again if he puts you in this kind of position and threatens you by saying the law is going to show up at your door and confiscate a gun you bought legally from him.

You may even want to report this to law enforcement to cover your butt in the future. Possesion of a stolen gun is a felony and can result in federal charges I would be very careful here.
 

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Chaco1 said:
If I were you I would contact a lawyer and local law enforcement to see what the law says. I for one would demand charges be filed after all it is a stolen gun isn't it? I would also demand the gun dealer give me some sort of compensation for my hassle and headache.

I also would never deal with this guy again if he puts you in this kind of position and threatens you by saying the law is going to show up at your door and confiscate a gun you bought legally from him.

You may even want to report this to law enforcement to cover your butt in the future. Possesion of a stolen gun is a felony and can result in federal charges I would be very careful here.
Ditto, I think Chaco1 hit this nail right on the head.
 

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Floordry said:
... BTW, Remington 1100 Magnum, wood stock, great condition....
Carl,

Easy solution... Have the dealer replace your gun with a "comparable" model, a new 1100 G3, that way you get a great gun and the dealer is "off the hook" for selling the gun. Let the dealer know he can get the monetary difference from the low-life or the (way too nice) father-in-law, they'll pay a lot less for the G3 than they would if he gets arrested.....

Smitty
 

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I am not expert on this, but I am not so sure anyone can take the gun from you. If you bought it rightfully, I think the original owner might only be able to get money damages from the person who stole it.

I also wonder if the dealer realized he didn't charge enough for it and changed his mind.
 

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Consider this;

First, you are not in trouble nor are you apt to get that way.
You bought the gun from a dealer and have the receipts and have been approved by the feds for the transaction.

There HAS been a transaction and it will show in the dealers bound book and it stays there no matter the outcome.

You will create another transaction and it will also show in hs records if you sell or give it back to him. As pointed out he will have to deal with that but it does not put you in jeapordy.

You could call the family and deal directly with them (I would not, sounds as if they may be a little sticky) sell it back to them and leave the dealer out of this altogether. That answers some of your questions ie: is this really what the dealer says or as someone else mentioned did he realize he didn't charge enough for the gun the first time around and wants another go at it at your expense?
Also, this would negate the transaction as it is a sale person to person for which there is no record other than you asking for a bill of sale to cyoa.

Or you could do as others have said, take it back to the dealer and get your money back with some added incentive for your troubles, after all your time and the gas to run back and forth to clean up his mess is worth something.

Or go hunting, shoot the gun and enjoy yourself and let him worry about getting them a new gun.

Any way you stack it, you are in the clear and they are NOT going to sic the law on you (for what) bringemon.

I'd call his bet and raise him a new Blaser R93 LRS2, with the 22-250 barrrel, with Leupold 8.5X24, tactical, for pararie dogs between rounds of ducks, geese and clays.
Ain't it fun to walk in someone elses shoes. :p

UF
 

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"you have done nothing wrong" is not the right answere when you hear the knock on the door.. Being in possession of a stolen firearm is probable cause, and you could be arrested if you want to play hardball.. I have found that the police after a 30 day warrant and investigation they can pickup about anything they want if they believe it is stolen.. Im not sure but i dont think the atf has to wait.. the thirty day warrant is to give you time to file a motion to prove the case that the property is yours.. Dont play games, get your money back or get it raplaced.. The dealer doesnt want to play games believe me.. He could loose his licence ergo his buiseness.. He will be glad to get this taken care of as best as possible before he gets audited.. dave
 

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Personally I would just take it back to the dealer and get my money back and be done with it. I would also get a written and dated bill of sale and make the dealer run himself in the firearms data base to be sure you are not selling the gun to a "felon".
 

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As much as I like picking up the odd 1100 at deal prices this fight is not worth the 3-400 dollars the gun might be worth.

Return to the 'dealer' and either take the refund or trade for an un-encumbered 1100 or Sporting 12 or 1100 Classic Trap, or an 1100 G3.

There lots of options more interesting that the 1100 you have--even if you your price was so good that you are tempted to keep the troubleome gun you purchased.
 

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I answered this in the other post but looks like it may have been deleted. Take the gun to the law authorities and have them run the numbers. Tell them you heard it might have been stolen, but you are not sure if your sources are right. Since the gun probly still hasn't been reported it should come back clear and get something in writing that you did it. Comes back clean, you got proof you did your part. Comes back stolen, you protected yourself by turning it in. I'm guessing it is some kind of way for the store owner to get more money for it or he is doing a favor for his friend. Either way, you should get some benefit out of it. A nicer gun to replace it would be my suggestion. If he balks at that let him know you did your checks and have no fear of being prosecuted. I doubt he will feel the same if it is in fact stolen. If he is trying to get more for the gun, my guess is he'll drop the issue.
 

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DRIGGY said:
I answered this in the other post but looks like it may have been deleted. Take the gun to the law authorities and have them run the numbers. Tell them you heard it might have been stolen, but you are not sure if your sources are right. Since the gun probly still hasn't been reported it should come back clear and get something in writing that you did it. Comes back clean, you got proof you did your part. Comes back stolen, you protected yourself by turning it in. I'm guessing it is some kind of way for the store owner to get more money for it or he is doing a favor for his friend. Either way, you should get some benefit out of it. A nicer gun to replace it would be my suggestion. If he balks at that let him know you did your checks and have no fear of being prosecuted. I doubt he will feel the same if it is in fact stolen. If he is trying to get more for the gun, my guess is he'll drop the issue.
Couldn't any joe schmoe steal a gun, take it to the cops, ask if its reported stolen before the owner reports it then claim to be in the clear and get something "in writing" stating that it isnt?

Not sure if I'm making sense but this sounds easily "worked".
 

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Smitty in CT said:
Floordry said:
Have the dealer replace your gun with a "comparable" model, a new 1100 G3, that way you get a great gun Smitty
IMO... screw the dealer I don't believe him it's all fabricated get a new gun out of the guy and then return it you are not in the hot seat and if that guy want's his gun back and it's that important to him he will push the dealer to make sure it happends.
 
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