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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
maybe somebody can answer this. Is there a simple way to determine what lenght of pull (ballpark or exact) one would need? I know the obvious answer is get a fitting or go to a smith, but I would like a general idea of what might be suitable for me. Is there some kind of measurement we can take or simple technique one can use to find out?.

Thanks,

Glenn
 

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Here is a BALLPARK answer. I know in advance that all the gunfitters are going to jump my case, but he wanted a ballpark answer so I'll give him one.

Mount the gun in your normal shooting position. If the base of your right thumb (assuming you shoot right handed) is about 1.5 to 2 inches from your nose, then you are in the right BALLPARK on gun fit. Of course, this presumes that you have a reasonably correct gun mount and stance.
 
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Now that Ulysses has spoken up so will I. Over the years I, too, wondered what a good answer would be when someone asked me this question. I knew what worked for me but was hesitant to try to tell someone else as I didn't want them cutting their stock then blaming me if it ended up being short.
I'm getting to be opinionated after 40 some years of shooting, though, and don't mind saying that for trap one needs a stock that is probably just long enough to keep his/her thumb from recoiling back into their nose. For most people this is a minimum of 1", but 1 1/2 is better for some. Interestingly enough, Rolan Oswald has exactly this measurement described in his booklet on stock fitting. As Ulysses states, one's stance and posture have a lot to do with getting this right. Until someone is consistant in mounting their gun I recommend holding off on cutting a stock. The first step after attaining a proper, consistant mount is then getting the pitch right as this really can affect the length. Ballparking, though, 1 1/2 " between the thumb and nose is the preferred amount for all disiplines, and most of us can adjust to this whereas some of the other stock dimensions are more difficult to live with if slightly off. Now you can start thinking about how your grip on the stock can affect this measurement, too. Guess why it is costly to have a good fitter work with you for that magical fit that allows you to move so effortlessly to the target. :) :)
 

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DONT CUT YOUR GUN UNTIL PROPERLY FITTED

OK so here is another way to test for LOP.

With an unloaded gun, or, better still, just the butt, rest the heelplate of butt against the bicep of your trigger hand/arm. Put your finger on the trigger. Is the reach OK - ie can you get the first joint of the forefinger on the trigger? Then the LOP is good :lol:

If you are poking your finger right through the trigger guard up to the third part of your forefinger, OR you can ONNNLY JUUUST get your finger onto the trigger, the LOP is wrong.

This is only an approximation, It is is better to have your gun mount checked as correct then looking at the thumb/nose relationship .

oh, and by the way,

DONT CUT YOUR GUN UNTIL PROPERLY FITTED

Roger
 

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nice avatar amigo!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys. You don't have to worry about me cutting my gun........I'm 6'7" I have yet to find a "too long pull" gun". I was just wondering if I would benefit from a few spacers.

Glenn
 

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Glenn:

As mentioned above, several things affect the correct length of pull (LOP.) I must disagree with Roger, however, in the exercise he quotes. That technique has been around for years and is as wrong now as it was when the first gun dealer (probably) told a prospective customer to perform the exercise. Then, with some wrist movement or no matter where the finger fell on the trigger, it was easy to say that the LOP was correct. Then followed: "That gun fits you."

Facing the point where the gun will be fired during setup requires a shorter LOP than turning/rotating the body to one side or the other. The distances between the nose and the shoulder pocket is different. Rotating the body requires a longer stock.

The height of the recoil pad on the shoulder also has an affect. Guns mounted higher (in trap for example,) require a shorter LOP comared to guns mounted lower. The cheek can come farther forward when the gun is low on the shoulder.

Different shooting disciplines also come into play. Trap shooters, using pre mounted guns, have the longest stocks. Sporting clays and skeet shooters along with hunters, typically use guns with shorter LOPs because they're easier and faster to swing.

To find your correct LOP, decide which discipline you are most interested in shooting. Determine if the pitch on your gun is correct; it has an effect on LOP. If it's incorrect and will be corrected sometime, your LOP requirement will change.

Then mount the gun and have someone measure the distance between your nose and your trigger thumb. Place your cheek as far forward on the comb as is comfortable for trap shooting and a little farther back for other disciplines. About one and one-half inches or a little less is good. If the stock is too long or too short, cut off or add one-forth of the distance you wish to change the length. It's weird, but it works.

If you need to add length, as a trial, add one-inch or one and one-quarter inch washers to the recoil pad attachment screws (longer ones of the same diameter and thread size may be needed) between the stock and the pad. It's also an ideal time to try a change in pitch, if necessary.

To be one the safe side, it is best to shoot the gun before making perminant changes.
http://stockfitting.virtualave.net/
 
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To a newbie as myself, I would almost think that since different shootings, trap, skeet, or sporting, require different LOP to fit the gun to the shooter to perform his or her best, does it mean you need to have three different guns to perform in these events?
 

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If you plan to compete in trap , skeet and sporting clays, you will find you will need one gun to shoot skeet and clays with and a second to shoot trap with. Not that you can't compete with one gun , but due to the differences in these three games you will find the a trap configured gun will post higher scores. If you look at a typical trap gun it will have a higher comb and longer barrels 30+ inches and tight choke. Skeet guns are traditionally shorter barrels and open chokes. Sporting clays guns are most times mid to long barrels to aid in smooth swing and interchangable chokes. Can you shoot all three with the same gun? Absolutely. Can your scores be improved by shooting a "trap" gun at trap and a "skeet gun" and skeet and a "clays gun" for clays? Sure it will make a difference and you will pick up some targets on your score sheet.

I have shot skeet with my trap gun and regularly shoot clays with it. I do quite well. 23 and 24 on skeet and average low 80's on most any clays course. But my scores do go up if I shoot my clays configured gun at skeet or clays targets. Trap guns are stocked and the barrels are set to shoot high to aid in hitting rising targets. skeet and trap guns shoot flat.

APEXDUCK
 
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Thanks a bunch folks!

Rollin Oswald,

I'm very new at this stuff but as of now sportings clays and 5 stands have my attention(ie, I suck at both! :oops: ). I'll get decent at these before I start something else. Not to say that I won't shoot the occasionnal trap or skeet round. Thanks for the very informative post, do appreciate it. This is just a hobby so having a good time comes wayyyyyyyyy above my score sheet.

Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Anonymous said:
Thanks a bunch folks!

Rollin Oswald,

I'm very new at this stuff but as of now sportings clays and 5 stands have my attention(ie, I suck at both! :oops: ). I'll get decent at these before I start something else. Not to say that I won't shoot the occasionnal trap or skeet round. Thanks for the very informative post, do appreciate it. This is just a hobby so having a good time comes wayyyyyyyyy above my score sheet.

Glenn
Forgot to log in! Sorry!
 

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Rollin,

Sorry I did NOT say that this was a test for gun fit. If you reread what I wrote, you will see that I said

OK so here is another way to test for LOP
By LOP I mean length of pull not gun fit, and later I said

This is only an approximation, It is is better to have your gun mount checked as correct then looking at the thumb/nose relationship
.

The original enquiry was about a ballpark test for length of pull, that is all this is. It will tell you if you are close or not very close to a reasonable LOP.

I do not have to tell you Rollin that fitting a gun is a much more complex deal. Your treatise on gun fit should be read by all serious shooters.

Remember, I am a Brit, where it is NORMAL to reserve about 10% of the purchase price of a gun for gun fit adjustments, rather than the one size fits all approach in the US.

Roger
 

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Roger;

That's why I hate to contridict someone. An argument so often follows.

I realize that you are not saying that a correct length of pull equals a well fitting stock. My contridiction involved an approximate test for the correct LOP. Use of the arm has never yielded an indication of the correct LOP. It has been used by many over the years and is nomore accurate now than it was 50 years ago. A better test would be the use of the length of the neck; it has more to do with the LOP than does the length of the lower arm, wrist, hand, etc.

As I mentioned, gun mount and stance as well as drop at the heel, pitch, and cast to a lesser extent, all have an affect on LOP.

You folks over there have the right idea when it comes to using a portion of the purchase price for gun fitting. I know that has been the case for the last several hundred years. In fact, some of the greatest fitters and stock makers were and are British. (I used the term "Brit" a couple of years ago and irritated the British wife of a shooter with whom I was corresponding.)

Fortunately, many US shooters are also learning the importance of gun fit, especially during the past three years. One size fitting all is being questioned more and more. It was three years ago when I began offering stock fitting guides for sale. They have been sent to eight foreign countries but if I recall correctly, a few months ago was the first sale to someone in the Britisn Isles. Shooters there are apparently continuing to reserve a portion of their gun buying budgets for stock fitting. It is a very sound approach to gun buying.

You folks also use many more of those "stage coach" or "cowboy" guns as I seen side by sides referred to here. They are even harder to fit; their barrels flap around when the gun is fired. Different barrels move different distances and it seems that it would be a quite a challenge to fit such a gun to shoot where expected.

http://stockfitting.virtualave.net/
 
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