Lyman 525 Sabot replacement Idea

5002 Views 36 Replies 10 Participants Last post by greg5278, Mar 7, 2010

greg5278

Discussion Starter · Dec 7, 2007

I am working on a solid base version of a Bullet in a wad concept like the Lyman 525. The bullet design will be a Truncated cone, not the pellet shape. What weight would you guys be interested in, 500, 550, 600, 650 grains? The 650gr would be in solid nose, the others would be hollow point. They would be suitable for Rifled barrels only.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

Rangeball

· #2 · Dec 7, 2007

I'd lean towards 500 grain. Assuming it was accurate of course.

Reason being probably a bit faster/flatter with less recoil than the others and still plenty of oomph to kill deer.

vabowhntr

· #3 · Dec 7, 2007

I would go for the 500 gr as well, as long as it was as accurate as the others.

jeager106

· #4 · Dec 8, 2007

greg: That's a fascinating concept.
The Lyman 525 was designed to be mass produced, offered to the public at retail outlets.
It had to be made in such a manner that it would fit most any slug barrel ever manufactured.
The Lyman is an o.k. design but the flat nose kills ballistics past 100 yards.
Putting the 525 in a Winchester was doesn't lend towards accuracy either.
Too bad most shotguns have that darned forcing cone that eats thin wad petals and ruins accuracy.
My 870 Express has had the forcing cone removed.
That modification facilitates good patterning with shot also. By as much as ten percent.
What will be the outside diameter of your creation?
What wad would you be using for this new bullet?
The truncated cone is a great idea.
How long will the bullet shank be for the various wieghts?
I'm suspecting the 650 grain t/c bullet would be about right in the more common 1:35 twist rifled 12 bore barrels.^^

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greg5278

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 9, 2007

Jeager,the bullet length will be .790" long. The weight will vary, depemnding on the HP soze. The OAL will not change. The Wad will be the CSD from BPI. It looks like this will be a 3" only load. I have not found a suitable load for the 2 3/4" hull.
Greg

jeager106

· #6 · Dec 10, 2007

Lead harder than foster type lead?
What will be the as cast and as sized diameter?
Could I purchase at least 15 for testing?
I'm gonna guess the T/C boolit should not ride the lands but fit the grooves, no harder than Lyman #2 alloy.
Of course if it fits a wad the hardness won't matter for beans on critters such as deer but a harder boolit might be dandy for larger critters or penetrating cover.
The T/C design sould be superior for penetrating cover, i.e. brush, car doors, submarines, etc.

Do you have anymore of your bore size boolits left from last year?
I'd be glad to buy some in 500 to 770 grain wieght to test further in the H&R.
I have powders from Steel, Longshot, to the SR powders, the super slow stuff.

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 14, 2007

The bullet is .650" diameter,and .840" long with a .375" long nose. The bullet will not touch the lands or grooves, the wad will takeup the slack. It should give a crush fit of .003-.004" in the grooves. I don'thave any yet to test. I will let you know how they work out. Yes I have some morefull bore stuff to send you. I have to get the time to find to dig them out.
Greg

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 14, 2007

Jeager, don't forget my load for the 880 in Low velocity pliking form. It runs 1054FPS with Longshot. Perhaps you could try it for accuracy at 100-200yards. Recoil shoudn't be too bad, not like the 1500FPS loads that were fired in the pressure gun. The Sniper fired some, and said recoil was brutal. He was heavily denting, and destroying the steel targets he was hitting.
PM me with what slugs you need.
Greg

wileyhunter

· #9 · Dec 17, 2007

Hey greg5278,

How is that sabot slug coming? You have my wondering how you have a .650 diameter slug, set inside a wad, and when it fires it will crush out about .003 to .004. That set up will be boncing off the sides of the barrel, on it way down the barrel.

What wad, and hull, are you using to test fire?

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 18, 2007

Wiley,BS on the bouncing down the barrel. I am not using regular WAA12 wads or wads uitable for the Lyman slug. My slug is designed for only one or 2 heavy wall steel shot wads with petals of .042". So .650"+.042"+.042" =.734" How is that going to rattle down the barrel?

Greg AKA
12 Bore

wileyhunter

· #11 · Dec 19, 2007

Well until now, I had no idea how thick the petals were on the wad you are using.

So have you got any slugs made up for test driving yet? So what weight have you settled on? Hollow point or not?

msinc

· #12 · Dec 19, 2007

I dont care what weight you make them.....if you make 'em I'll buy 'em!!! I am all about getting away from $14.00 plus for a box of five slugs. It's ridiculous to be able to shoot a magnum hi-powered rifle for half the cost of a shotgun!!! I use Hammerheads now but I am always open to new stuff. Consider making molds for this slug too???? PM me for an order when you get this thing off the ground.

Rangeball

· #13 · Dec 19, 2007

Greg, do you have any thoughts on using a machined copper or brass slug to get the weight down and velocity up?

Keep the same OD, just using a material lighter than lead?

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 19, 2007

I have no plans on using a machined bullet/slug with this load. The accucay would not be worth it. For a machined bullet, I would want a proper Sabot. The full bore machined solids are MOA capable, so I don't think anything is to be gained with a compromise wad/sabot.
Greg

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 13, 2008

Well, I was able to fire one round, which hit the target square. The bullet, and wad is engaging the rifling, otherwise the slug would have tumbled. I have 5 more rounds, but an injury kept me from firing a 5 shot group. The load looks promising, and should have good terminal performance. the Hollow point is .375" in Diameter, and .375" deep. It shoulkd expand on Deer, and thin skinned game. The weight is 603-605grains.

I hope the accuracy is good at 100 yards. The only real change from the Lyman loading procedure, is the use of a plastic Overshot wad to allow a proper crimp.

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

Rangeball

· #16 · Jan 14, 2008

Sounds encouraging. Please keep us posted.

greg5278

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 16, 2008

Well the load shows promise, but I cannot hold the gun still with my Shoulder injury. The group was around 4", but I couldn't hold it still. THe groups were stringing high and left at 45 degrees. Two went in one hole. I simply can't get my left hand to hold the pump down in recoil. The slugs completely penetrated a 7-8" diameter Cedar tree at 50 yards. That nbeats the 615gr Hollow base slug I have, at higher velocity.

I hope to send some loads to some shooters to give them a preliminary test, before cutting production molds, and releasing them for sale. I plan on selling the cast slugs as a loading component, after all of the Ballistic testing is done. I WILL NOT sell any slug until all of the prerequisite pressure testing is complete.

I'll keep you posted.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

Rangeball

· #18 · Jan 17, 2008

Sounds promising

I assume the wads you will be recommending are readily available?

Are you loading these with commercial powder or something that anyone can buy, like.... blue dot?

eye shot

· #19 · Jan 17, 2008

Greg
Are you cutting the CSD wad or leaving it unslit? Also I may have missed it, are the slugs cast or swaged?

Rangeball

· #20 · Jan 17, 2008

Another consideration.

I know you don't have one, but this approach would seem to have a lot of merit in 20g as well.

Any chance you might expand to that if the 12g takes off?

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