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I attended my first meat shoot last week, and while I had fun I also felt like I was just a donor.

Do these shoots normally class shooters by ability?

At this shoot you just signed up when you wanted to shoot. Problem is there was always at least one shooter in the group that was way more experienced/talented to the point where the other 4 had no hope of competing or winning anything.
 

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I have been involved in meat shoots since 1969.

In this area, typically it is;

10 shooters (two squads of five)

5 shots at 16 yards, one shot/post, one squad shoots, then the second.

Everyone that has goes 5/5 is in a miss & out shoot off from 30 yards behind the trap.

There are variations on this and buddy shoots, annies etc.

We just ran our annual Dec. 26th shoot, a 40+ year local tradition, yesterday under very nice conditions, for Dec.

xsshooter said:
I had fun I also felt like I was just a donor.
Some days are like that, I won three singles and a buddy yesterday, a good day makes up for the days I am a donor.

xsshooter said:
Do these shoots normally class shooters by ability?
Speaking as someone who organizes these things at a rural club, I would love to do this but it is almost impossible to achieve in practice.

You can't always tell for sure who is coming through the door from an ability stand point.

The guy with the K80 and the nice gear may not be that good, he just has a few $'s to spend and likes the gun and gear. I have seen guys with a 50 year old plain barreled M12 or 870 duck gun, who have never registered and ATA target in their lives that can clean up at these events (so asking for an ATA card won't work).

I have seen great sporting clays shots and guys with 27 yard trap handicaps that don't do well. I am not trying to knock any type of shooter regardless of what they shoot for a gun or game; just trying to show how tough it is for the organizers to classify shooters at these things.

xsshooter said:
At this shoot you just signed up when you wanted to shoot. Problem is there was always at least one shooter in the group that was way more experienced/talented to the point where the other 4 had no hope of competing or winning anything.
At our small club, I was ready to address this yesterday at the Dec. 26th Shoot because I want to encourage the new people.

We have some new folks of "known ability" and I was prepared to run smaller five shooter events just for them to compete between themselves. I was hoping this would occur but in spite of asking them to come out and promising I would run these shoots for them, they didn't show. These are a few of the things organizers of these shoots face.
 

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meat shoots at our club are the same as claydust's They are any where from 16yd to 27yds and the shoot offs can be from where ever out to about 41 yds. Some days I'm a donor some days I'm a winner just the way it goes.
 

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I've run our meat and prize shoots from behind the desk for years now.We've just put 300 squads thru over three days.
Knowing most of the shooters who attend our shoots,it's not too diificult to classify them.We run three classes.Novice,Intermediate and Open class.If you're a registered trapshooter and shoot long yardage you're going to shoot in open class.Plain and simple.I also put a few guys into open class because I know their ability.Short yardage registered shooters and the majority of bird hunters get to shoot intermediate unless you're an up and coming handicap shooter carrying a high average.Then you get to shoot open.Intermediate shooters get to win two prizes before they move up to Open class.
Novice class is the toughest to classify.This is a class where we also allow two wins before you have to move up to intermediate class.You do end up with strangers who show up and you have no idea of their ability.90% of the time they're pretty honest but you get the occasional sandbagger.I get numerous guys who I know that are ex registered shooters of better than average ability who will try to sign up as novices every year.It doesn't happen!I only had two real complainers over the three days that we shot this year.I usually give them the option to stop whining or they get to shoot with the open class 27 yard boys.They usually settle down right there.
I also post a sign saying management reserves the right to classify shooters.
The most complaints come from fathers who bring their kids up to shoot and have never held a shotgun before.They complain about their boys losing even though they shoot 0 out of 10 which just doesn't win anytime.The winners are often only shooting 4's and 5's.It's not a place or time to learn to shoot.These squads also run extremely slow and back up the whole shoot.We do not encourage rookie shooters to come out.
You can never totally deal with the problems of classifications but when you put your mind to it you end up with 95% of the shooters going away happy.Our shooters keep coming back year after year so we must be doing something right.A few guys are going to be suprised next year though when they see their new classifications. :wink:
Dave
 

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A simple rule that states winners must shoot against winners, opens squads to a more fair compitition. Once the shooter has won, they must squad with other winners to continue to participate. Some clubs also have the rule of....Win 2 times and your done. Other clubs offer squads for $1.00 to shoot for a # of bacon, another $3.00 for a small ham, and other for $4.00 to shoot for a turkey. 2 targets every post, the shooters choose the yardage. Games can have variable rules, but never should leave a club member or a guest feeling like a donor to the big dogs. Not everyone wins, but they should feel like the program was fair.

Maltzie
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
maltzahn said:
A simple rule that states winners must shoot against winners, opens squads to a more fair compitition. Once the shooter has won, they must squad with other winners to continue to participate. Some clubs also have the rule of....Win 2 times and your done. Other clubs offer squads for $1.00 to shoot for a # of bacon, another $3.00 for a small ham, and other for $4.00 to shoot for a turkey. 2 targets every post, the shooters choose the yardage. Games can have variable rules, but never should leave a club member or a guest feeling like a donor to the big dogs. Not everyone wins, but they should feel like the program was fair.

Maltzie
I like that set up. The shoot I was at one "kid" won six times. This kid shoots probally 20k rounds a year. Which is great, but no way can I compete with someone like that, especially when the shooter from post one gets to chose the starting point, which a lot of the time was the 27.

I will most likely go back to the shoot, and if they don't change the rules, I will make sure I sign up with people I know.
 

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xsshooter said:
maltzahn said:
A simple rule that states winners must shoot against winners, opens squads to a more fair compitition. Once the shooter has won, they must squad with other winners to continue to participate. Some clubs also have the rule of....Win 2 times and your done. Other clubs offer squads for $1.00 to shoot for a # of bacon, another $3.00 for a small ham, and other for $4.00 to shoot for a turkey. 2 targets every post, the shooters choose the yardage. Games can have variable rules, but never should leave a club member or a guest feeling like a donor to the big dogs. Not everyone wins, but they should feel like the program was fair.

Maltzie
I like that set up. The shoot I was at one "kid" won six times. This kid shoots probally 20k rounds a year. Which is great, but no way can I compete with someone like that, especially when the shooter from post one gets to chose the starting point, which a lot of the time was the 27.

I will most likely go back to the shoot, and if they don't change the rules, I will make sure I sign up with people I know.
There's one other option.I'll get guys who want to shoot together regardless of ability.In that case I don't care who shoots together.I'll give them 5 empty squad sheets,they fill them up,give me $187.50($375.00 if they shoot 10 times)and they shoot.Usually,they split the winnings so that everybody goes home with a prize or two. Dave
 

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vetteman said:
We've just put 300 squads thru over three days.

Knowing most of the shooters who attend our shoots,it's not too diificult to classify them.We run three classes.Novice,Intermediate and Open class.
That's a great way to handle it, if you can; the number of shooters has to help.

We cannot do this because at our small town, one trap club, 15 to 20 shoots is a good day and if we classed everyone in this manner, we would not have ten shooters in each class.

Sounds like a good way to handle it, if the number of shooters and club size can support it.
 

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xsshooter said:
maltzahn said:
A simple rule that states winners must shoot against winners, opens squads to a more fair compitition. Once the shooter has won, they must squad with other winners to continue to participate. Some clubs also have the rule of....Win 2 times and your done. Other clubs offer squads for $1.00 to shoot for a # of bacon, another $3.00 for a small ham, and other for $4.00 to shoot for a turkey. 2 targets every post, the shooters choose the yardage. Games can have variable rules, but never should leave a club member or a guest feeling like a donor to the big dogs. Not everyone wins, but they should feel like the program was fair.

Maltzie
I like that set up. The shoot I was at one "kid" won six times. This kid shoots probally 20k rounds a year. Which is great, but no way can I compete with someone like that, especially when the shooter from post one gets to chose the starting point, which a lot of the time was the 27.

I will most likely go back to the shoot, and if they don't change the rules, I will make sure I sign up with people I know.
Our squad sheets always have what type of shoot they will be written on them before they go out.Whether it be a slider,a Buddy Shoot or even a 16 yard shoot it will be written on the squad sheet.No one goes out not knowing what they've signed up for.
Dave
 

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Claydust said:
vetteman said:
We've just put 300 squads thru over three days.

Knowing most of the shooters who attend our shoots,it's not too diificult to classify them.We run three classes.Novice,Intermediate and Open class.
That's a great way to handle it, if you can; the number of shooters has to help.

We cannot do this because at our small town, one trap club, 15 to 20 shoots is a good day and if we classed everyone in this manner, we would not have ten shooters in each class.

Sounds like a good way to handle it, if the number of shooters and club size can support it.
I understand the problems with small meat shoots.Even with the size of our shoots,a novice who wants to sign up at 10:00AM will often have to wait until noon before that squad fills up.Our novices are generally afternoon shooters for some reason.
Dave
 

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vetteman said:
Even with the size of our shoots,a novice who wants to sign up at 10:00AM will often have to wait until noon before that squad fills up.
Our's wouldn't have the patience for that kind of wait :wink: , at a small club, the action is quick and they are spoiled by it.

Having belonged to both small clubs and clubs with 600 members in various locations and times, I know how these things work at different sized clubs, but the locals here don't.

Large or small, running shoots have their "challenges". I ask for suggestions for prizes, rather than me arbitrarily selecting them all the time......and just get that "deer in the headlight" stare (at least ours don't complain very often about the choice but input would be nice sometimes).

I often would like to be back at that big club, just paying my money and helping out when I can but no one else wants to "step up to the plate" here, so I do it so I have somewhere to shoot close by :lol:
 
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