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I was at a local gun shop in Jacksonville, Fla browsing for something to spend my birthday money on and evesdropping on a conversation between an employee and a customer. The customer was looking for something for home defense and was asking the employee what would suit him best. He grabs a nicely customized Bushmaster AR15 and begins to lay it on thick about how great it is for room clearing and blah blah blah. Since I am in the military and have done room clearings and the employee was obviously talking out of his posterior, I strolled over to take a look at the "magnificent" piece of hardware for myself. It was a used rifle with enough upgrades on it to make Rambo drool, vertical grip, laser pointer, m-4 stock, flattop reciever and an aimpoint sight on it with a $2100 price tag to boot. The customer said that it was above what he wanted to pay, so I politely suggested he go with the Mossberg 500 for $200 and some change. I've carried a Mossberg in every security command I was stationed in and find it better for close quarters than the M16/M4. That and a shotgun will always beat a carbine in a home defense situation not only with stopping power and just the sound of a pump action shotgun being cocked is more than enough to make even the most hardened criminals turn tail and run or surrender outright. The employee was less than pleased with me after the man was impressed by my sales pitch and the price tag on a much superior psycological deterrent and had the manager ask me to leave the premesis. Not wanting to argue with a man with a 1911 strapped to his waist, I left the store as the customer went on to purchase his shotgun. I won't give business to an establishment that would rather earn an easy buck over providing the customer with the right equipment for the task at hand and now buy guns online.
 

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meankeen said:
That and a shotgun will always beat a carbine in a home defense situation not only with stopping power and just the sound of a pump action shotgun being cocked is more than enough to make even the most hardened criminals turn tail and run or surrender outright.
Uhhh....yeah.... :?
 

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I read a study that said 1,000 hardened Super Max criminals were scientifically tested and less that 10% experienced "shrivel syndrome" when exposed to the sound of a pump shotgun's action being cycled. But over 27% reported being excited by it.

Zombies in internment camps were similarly tested and were universally attracted to the sound as they associated it with food.
 

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Way to go.
Some people say that you shouldn't speak up in these situations and should just choose not to frequent these establishments anymore. I say BS to them. Dishonest is dishonest and deserves to be called out. Regardless of whether a pump action sound will scare away an intruder, a shottie is obviously a better all around fit for what this guy was looking for i.e. performance, price, (probably) ease of use. It's one thing for these guys to charge more than the big chain stores I can understand the need for this since they don't do the volume of a Sportsmans, or a Cabela's, but to flat out decieve someone for monetary gain puts you on the same level of the thieves they need to protect against.

Rant over, Eric
 

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zombie said:
meankeen said:
That and a shotgun will always beat a carbine in a home defense situation not only with stopping power and just the sound of a pump action shotgun being cocked is more than enough to make even the most hardened criminals turn tail and run or surrender outright.
Uhhh....yeah.... :?
+1.

As a former gun store employee I also think they were more than right to kick you out. I would have.

When a salesman is trying to sell something, it is rude in extremes to intrude. Stores have a right to make money off of people too stupid to realize $2100 is insane for a bushmaster.

Personally, I'd have sold it to him and laughed about it all day.

You could have taken that guy aside and talked to him later, or, just not said a word.

We won't get into carbines vs. shotguns here. Though I have been thinking much about it.

Not to bust your balls but I've had a few "super knowledgeable gun people" f*ck up my sales in the past.
 

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Maybe it's just me, but as a salesmen I'd rather sale someone something that they need and help them determine what that is. Doing so develops appreciation and trust. Not only will a satisfied customer come back but they'll recommend you to their friends. The guy who buys a $2100 carbine only to find out from guys at the range or at work or whatever that all he needed was a $250 shotgun is going to be pretty pissed and embaressed. If you want to be that salesman that's your business, and if you want to kick me out of your store great, because I'd of left anyway and at least now I'm doing it with flare. :twisted:
I love your knowlegde and insight Rev. but I hope none of the old/ handicap people you work with accidentally leave a twenty just laying around. (Note: my tone here is a good natured ribbing, don't be seriously offended)

Eric
 

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I am new to this site and have to say their is a wealth of knowledge here. Glad I finally registered!

But to the topic.

I have seen exactly what meankeen has stated above. I could see were he could be ticked off at this. Some shops know who the new guys to the gun world are and they just take total advantage of them. That sucks! These guys I know are In it to make money, But what ever happened to honesty.

Me myself I would not get involved Unless the customer turned around and asked for my opinion. But from seeing what was being done to the newbe ,I would of just walked out and took my business elsewhere.

My 2 cents
 

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So the best thing to do and I am sure they will begin teaching it in all of the new shotgun defense coursed is;

Stand just outside the door and rack the pump gun several times in rapid succession then jump back so the sharpshooters can pickem off when they run screaming in terror from the building. I missed that in my past classes and military training.

I have heard for years about those who keep a SG for home defense because just the sound of a pump being racked is enough to strike terror into the hearts of the bad guys.
People leaving my classes have been disavowed of that BS very quickly. You will not hear that sound in my home or office as the round is already in the pipe. If I have time to rack the round you have time to shoot me stone dead or for that matter stab me or etc etc. Knowhuttamean.

But then I am still learning.

UF
 

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Why need to leave a live round in the chamber ? The time you need to pick up the gun and shoot is enough time to cycle the action to chamber,did u say something about training you were in?Myself had only 3 yrs in the Corps but lets discuss on that anyhoo.
 

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I'm more for the stand of integrity. They have the right to a sale but you have the right to offer your opinion. Sometimes I see these decietful types of salesman putting the perspective buyer in real danger selling them a weapon that is just plain wrong for them and/or their application for the weapon. Almost every time I go into a gun store it has one employee (if not more) that claims X-military/ X-Navy Seal / X-champion combat shooter / current and total authority on guns. None of them that I looked into had any validity in thier alleged shooting backround(s). I can't even stand to listen to these morons spew their BS by the bucket... I have to walk away.

Now I don't want to get anything started because we all know:

1.) Glocks are plastic junk.

2.) Ford is better than Chevy

3.) Yamaha is better than Mercury

4.) Democrats are better than Republicans

5.) Everyone on this forum secretly worships Hillary and hopes she is the next pres...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, Happy Holidays my friends!!
 

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Dirtyeddie said:
1.) Glocks are plastic junk.

2.) Ford is better than Chevy

3.) Yamaha is better than Mercury

4.) Democrats are better than Republicans

5.) Everyone on this forum secretly worships Hillary and hopes she is the next pres...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, Happy Holidays my friends!!
Haven't seen you post here a while.

I see you haven't lost your sense of humor. :D
 

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Grizzlywinmag said:
Reverend Db said:
Personally, I'd have sold it to him and laughed about it all day.
Doesn't that seem a little bit unethical to you?
Nope! :D

Allow me to clarify my ethics. I would not have sold the gun if it did not work or if it was some little old lady looking to stay safe after her husband passed away.

I always did my best to reccomend both good options to the consumer, whatever BS they wanted and the "super cool expensive whizbang" option.

It's not my fault nor anything I can put any energy in whatsover to put work towards keeping a fool and his money together. Seriously, some of what I sold was a good deal, some wasn't. But I did my best and tried to make $$$ for the nice people who let me have their FFL number and access to all manner of catalogs.

And if a customer asked me nicely, I would point out any manner of cheaper options and point them out honestly as I have here and other places I drift to.

Seriously, if someone was stupid enough to offer you $20 for a $10 item you'd take it in a heartbeat. That's called CAPITALISM. It means if you don't watch out you get f*cked and if you can pick up a little on the side you can and do.

In small doses it's good business. Selling "cancer vaccine" and "faith healing" to people is wrong as is screwing them out of life savings. But a rifle with an inflated price? Our own government probably perpetrated 40-50 atrocities ON ITS OWN PEOPLE in the time it takes to read this. If you work for a company, chances are you f*cked someone worse than this.

Come on folks, who cares? The world will keep turning, the dumba$$ that was "saved" will probably get stabbed to death by a tweaker with a sharpened screwdriver who wasn't scared away by the mighty sound of the pump. :lol:

And in terms of my clients leaving out a twenty, I'd much rather put the barrel of my HK in my mouth than take it.

I have to live with myself and only do what I can countenance and WILL NOT do more.

But this? Seriously, I couldn't be more apathetic.

Cthulhu for prez in '08.

Reverend DB
 

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I think we all need a review of the monkeysphere principal. A person's monkeysphere is the limit of about 150 people that one person can possibly care about, while everyone else is f#cked. When it comes down to it, did you put all you broken glass in a cardboard box to protect the garbage mans hands? i didn't, he isnt in my monkeysphere. did I flip out at the a$$hole who cut me off the other day? yes i did, he wasn't in my monkeysphere. Hell, he could have just made a innocent mistake. Why is it when we read obituaries in the paper we sometimes think nothing of them, but other times feel sad over the loss of a good friend. it all depends on the monkeysphere.
 

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"Monkeysphere"

First off, welcome to the basement if that hasn't been said.

I have an idea you'll fit in just fine.

Seriously, that rocked.
 

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Reverend Db said:
Grizzlywinmag said:
Reverend Db said:
Personally, I'd have sold it to him and laughed about it all day.
Doesn't that seem a little bit unethical to you?
Nope! :D

Allow me to clarify my ethics. I would not have sold the gun if it did not work or if it was some little old lady looking to stay safe after her husband passed away.

I always did my best to reccomend both good options to the consumer, whatever BS they wanted and the "super cool expensive whizbang" option.

It's not my fault nor anything I can put any energy in whatsover to put work towards keeping a fool and his money together.
Based on the OP's story, though, it doesn't sound like this guy really counts as a fool, though. Perhaps our impressions on what went on are different, but this sounds like a guy who doesn't know much at all about firearms and is probably asking "what would be a good first gun for me" - and maybe, because he's such a newbie, he's not even asking that question all that clearly. Do you think a $2000 rooney AR-15 is a good choice for a first gun? Jumping right to one of the most expensive firearms on the rack, that's just ridiculous. I can understand if someone comes in with a silly idea already in their head. It's not necessarily your job to disabuse every dumbass out there of their foolishness, but unless this guy came in and said "I need a rifle for home defense, and it had better have all the bells and whistles" that salesman was pulling a pretty dastardly move.

Seriously, if someone was stupid enough to offer you $20 for a $10 item you'd take it in a heartbeat.
Not me. I would probably cut a newb a break, actually (although it depends on the circumstances, of course).

Our own government probably perpetrated 40-50 atrocities ON ITS OWN PEOPLE in the time it takes to read this. If you work for a company, chances are you f*cked someone worse than this.
I hope you don't seriously think this type of reasoning justifies any sort of behavior. Tu quoque logical fallacy for the lose.

But this? Seriously, I couldn't be more apathetic.
If $1800 is no big deal to you, you must make a lot more money than I do.
 

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CaptainA said:
I think we all need a review of the monkeysphere principal. A person's monkeysphere is the limit of about 150 people that one person can possibly care about, while everyone else is f#cked.
There's a bit of a difference between not putting lots of thought and effort into someone's well being, and deliberately trying to bend them over the barrel. There's monkey, and then there's low grade sociopath.
 
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