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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have access to many 1000's of 12 ga Clever hulls. My plan is to shoot them once only while shooting sporting clays.
Looking for 1150 to 1300 fps.
I think Clevers are cheddite type straight wall hulls.
What size primer?
I currently load AA's in 7/8 and 1 oz. with good results.
I have not been able to get good results in 3/4 oz, Win 209, 18 grs, cb0175-12 wads.
 

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I have not been able to get good results in 3/4 oz, Win 209, 18 grs, cb0175-12 wads.
In Gun Clubs I get excellent results with basically that same load, although I prefer Fiocchi 616s.

Are Clever the ones with the ridiculously high outside metal base? I never could them to resize with the collet (Grabber) or the ring (on a Jr.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Clever Mirage Pro Extra have high metal base I believe they are T4's.
 

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I assume the powder is Titewad as stated in the subject. I use a similar recipe for 7/8 oz in Remington hulls with good results, although it requires a little press adjustment to get a good (not dished) crimp. I don't know if I could get it to work in a straight wall hulls - never tried.

Titewad is probably not a great choice for 3/4 oz loads because it is a pretty dense powder and it is hard to avoid dished crimps. This is especially true in straight wall hulls, which have a greater capacity than Remingtons or Winchesters. You will have a much easier time of it with a "fluffier" powder that is designed for light loads like ExtraLite or Vectan A24.
 

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Titewad is a PERFECT powder for 3/4oz loads, and will work fine - providing you use the proper wad for the hull. I get perfect crimps in my Gun Club hulls using the CB wad, and they function just fine in my gas guns.
 

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oneounceload said:
Titewad is a PERFECT powder for 3/4oz loads, and will work fine - providing you use the proper wad for the hull. I get perfect crimps in my Gun Club hulls using the CB wad, and they function just fine in my gas guns.
I believe the point that "Pickman" was bringing forth was this:
Due to the fact that the Straight wall hulls have somewhat more interior volume, it might be tricky to get a good crimp with a 3/4 oz loading especially if you use a fairly dense powder such as Titewad. Using a Rem or WW hull reduces the interior volume somewhat making the fit much easier to accomplish.
If I was trying to make that combination work, I would sure try using the Orange DR-XXL-1 wad from Downrange. But I would only buy 500 to begin with.
 

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The Clever hulls are awesome to reload! They have excellent crimp memory, and recrimp wonderfully - you will like reloading them.

For 7/8'th oz (and 1-ounce) look at the neon-green Claybuster CB-6100, - it's taller, and so will work will with Titewad (and Vectan's Prima-V) in those loads. Any primer you have will work as they do not have oversized primer pockets.

You can use Cheddite hull data, but in reality, they are closer to Fiocchi (7mm base wads).

The uber expensive Gualandi GU-1227 (BPI's "EML" wad) works excellent for 3/4 ounce in both, the Federal hulls, plus any/all of the Euro hulls (and the Clever/Mirage hulls) with a fast burning powder (like Vectan's A24, or Alliants ExtraLite) :




The old VP-05 (PT-1205) works well for 3/4 ounce in Euro hulls too, but I believe that this wad has been disco'd :




But for a more affordable wad for this application, the new Fiocchi 'fiocchi27' wad that BPI carries is a good choice too (for 3/4 ounce).

If you get the Claybuster CB-6100's, and if you have Titewad, you can expect really good stack height (and good performance) in 7/8th's ounce in those Clever hulls which are very close to the Fiocchi hulls pictured here :




Equally as well in 1 ounce loadings (with Titewad, or Vectan's Prima-V:




I used to load the low brass red Mirage's by the bucket load :



The clear ones load equally as well :




You can expect 4-5 reloads out of them Clever/Mirage hulls, but you shouldn't need to do that since they seem plentiful.
 

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Republican, can you really load Fiocchi with W209 primers? I thought you needed the oversized Euro primers for them. I have a good stash of them started but haven't tried to load them because all I have are W209 primers.

EG
 

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Fiocchi primers are only very slightly larger than those of the big US names (Remington. Winchester, CCI, Federal) and Cheddite, for that matter. I have had no problems switching back and forth among them. The difficulties most folks have with Fiocchi primers is due to them not having much of a radius at the top end so they don't slide into the primer pocket as easily.

Rio primers are a different story. They are definitely larger and will enlarge the primer pocket. If you reload Rio hulls, you are probably going to need Rio primers. You might be able to get away with Fiocchi primers because, due to the small top radius, they have a greater bearing surface than typical US primers but it's likely to be an iffy proposition. The primer probably won't fall out but you are likely to get some leakage of combustion gasses around the primer.
 

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I've used Cheddite primers in RIO hulls (in a break open gun) without any problems. Don't know if that combination would work okay in a semi, don't own one.
 

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greeneb said:
Republican, can you really load Fiocchi with W209 primers? I thought you needed the oversized Euro primers for them. I have a good stash of them started but haven't tried to load them because all I have are W209 primers.
Something to be aware of, that with the "clear Fiocchi's" that are littering the fields up here in the great Northwest (South Seattle area), there are two types which appear to use two different primers (even though the hull itself is still basically the same). One has a picture of a clay target on it, and the other doesn't, and are in different boxes.

One uses an all-silver primer that many of us regard as the "traditional" Fiocchi primer, and one that looks like it could be a Cheddite, Nobel Sport, or Rio for that matter (although I seriously doubt that it is a Rio) :



Since I don't shoot a lot of factories, I really don't know which hulls came out of which box that I have pictured above, and so there's probably only a 50% chance that I got them matched.

Depriming the both of them, you can hand-seat a Winchester W209 primer with your thumb, with some resistance, with the one with the all-silver primer requiring a bit more thumb pressure. This hints that maybe the non-silver one might be a Nobel Sport primer.

In any event, as Pickman says, sans a true hard mechanical interference fit (requiring machine pressure to seat), there might be some gas leakage.

While I have (in the past) loaded Winchester W209's in any/all of the clear Fiocchi's that I've picked up in both, O/U, and in my Benelli Cordoba, I admit that I've never checked for gas leakage signs.

I guess I never loaded enough of them with W209's to be of any concern to me even if there was some gas leakage. But if you plan on loading a lot of Fiocchi's with a lot of W209's, and gas leakage is a concern to you, then yeah, this could be a factor, and you'd have to evaluate that for your given situation.

Also notice that I've way-way streamlined my infamous 'box label system'.

And on that note, don't use the 19.2 grains of 206V in a 1-ounce load in these hulls that you seen on that box, - use at least 20 grains ( 20.2-20.8 ). At 19.2, 206V seems to fall out of it's narrow power curve and become sub 1200 fps. At ~20.5 (+/-), they become "Happy-happy-happy" (but they will end up being 1250-1265 fps).
 
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