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Has anyone tried one of the newer Win. 101 sporting models?

Are they using the same action as the Select Entergy's? The look to be several hundred dollars cheaper that a Browning 625.

How do the two compare?
 

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buck2 said:
Are they using the same action as the Select Entergy's?
Same action. Built in Belgium by FN and outstanding value. The action is less bulky and more Italian style than Citoris but at less than 8lbs perhaps not quite heavy enough for the serious clay shooters.

2 gunsmiths I know both rate them for reliability/durability as right up there with Browning & Beretta.
 

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I have been shooting a Select Platinum for two years. Added an adjustable comb and a 10mm raised rib and it shoots great. I now have a custom fitted gun for way less than a B gun.

FN makes both guns by the way.
 

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To clarify: FN makes the Winchesters in Belgium. While FN owns Browning, the Citori 625, as always, is made in Japan by Miroku, not by FN.

I'd be happy to own the Winchester with its Belgian barrel set and low-profile receiver. I have tried the 625, and while the improved barrels make it not nearly as bad as most Citoris I've tried, it's still not something I'd want, particularly in 12 Gauge.
 

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One of the reasons I bought my Select Platinum Sporting was the recommendation of a gunsmith/friend of mine who was impressed by their build quality. As a long time Citori fan, after shooting the Winchester for over 2 years now, I would never buy a 12 gauge Citori again.

IMO the one valid criticism of the Winchester is their light weight for target use. Mine weighs exactly 7.5 lbs. Recoil has never been an issue, but I shoot 1 ounce loads and never more than a hundred a day. Extra weight can be easily added.
 

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ShowMe2 and Trickster:

If possible, when you happen to talk to your gunsmiths that praised the new 101, could you ask them how it might compare in design, strength, reliability etc. when specifically compared to the original Japanese version and also perhaps specifically to the 686 guns?

I'm in the market for a mid level used O/U and both the new and old 101 are on my list of potentials as well as the 686 guns. I'm in no hurry and will grab whatever first feels good and is a fair deal. I just want a proven gun with choke tubes and steel shot capability. That is the one piece missing from my set of tools right now. I have several fixed choke classic old reliables but have room for a more versatile O/U at the moment. The new 101 has piqued my interest.

I have in the past owned a 686 and an original Japenese 101 XTR Lightweght. I wish I had'nt let the 101 go...I shot it well, but then again, that was back when both my eyes and reflexes were much younger and better.
 

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The design is not comparable to the Japanese version. It was a modified Superposed design; the new one has Beretta-style studs. The receiver geometry is as different as a Beretta is from a Citori. The name is the only thing the "101s" have in common.

Versus a Beretta, the new 101 has a slimmer buttstock than a 686 12 Gauge, but a little more wood up front. Overall geometry is most similar to an SKB, IMO, but the new 101 isn't so heavy.

The closest new gun you'll get to the original 101 is a Citori, but the old 101 had lightening cuts and usually a tapered forend. Browning eliminated these features about 30 years ago, though early Citoris had them. They were like the Superposed Lightning, which handles remarkably well for its receiver size. Browning has brought back the taper, though with an odd-looking schnabel added to it, with guns like the 625, but the elegant lightening cuts appear to be gone for good, even from the new Belgian Superposed guns from the Custom Shop.
 

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Grouse Gunner said:
ShowMe2 and Trickster:

If possible, when you happen to talk to your gunsmiths that praised the new 101, could you ask them how it might compare in design, strength, reliability etc. when specifically compared to the original Japanese version and also perhaps specifically to the 686 guns?
I can't add much to Barry's post about the specs of the 101s. I've shot both but I'm not very familiar with them.

My 2 guys are a generation apart. The younger one shoots a modern Winchester and recommends it to anyone who'll listen. (He's also a gun dealer) The older guy has numerous varieties of the Kodensha built 101s (Nikko & Olin) as well as an absolutely stunning Golden Eagle Shadow Custom. The woodwork is inlaid with ebony & ivory and the action is inlaid with gold & silver. He tells me that only 6 were ever made - and his wife shoots it regularly! Parts aren't so easy to get these days but about the only weakness with the old 101 is the ejector sears which occasionally fail. There were some issues with forearms splitting on the earlier Selects but otherwise there's no reason to doubt it's as rugged as a 686 or Citori. The Select that I shot was light at the back end and heavy up front but I understand that's been addressed now for the new 101s, although in sporter form it's still significantly lighter than the Beretta sporters.
 

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GG,
I think BarryD sums it up pretty well...

I briefly owned a Japanese-built 101 in the early 80's. I quickly sold it due to recoil issues. The gun seemed to be quality built though.

As a long time Citori fan I was ready to purchase a 525 Sporting when a gunsmith/friend of mine encouraged me to take a look at the Winchester. I bought mine over 2 years ago and haven't looked back. Mine has some of the finest blueing I've ever seen on any shotgun.

Fit is important so check them out before you buy, but if you like the Winchester, get it.
 

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Thanks to all for the helpful replies to my question.

I'm still a little curious as to how the new 101 action design may hold up for long term use as compared to the 686 and old 101 design. hard to believe the new 101 could be stronger or more reliable than a 686 but just as good would be fine with me. The Citoris do not interest me much. A lot of the 686 guns don't do much for me either but it all depends on how each individual specimen balances. I don't miss my 686 essential all that much. Some 686's feel good to me and some don't.

From what I've learned here I would not be afraid to get the new 101 as opposed to the others. If it feels better to me than the others I will not hesitate. I tend to favor lighter guns anyway. Even for target use 7 to 7 1/2 lbs. does not bother me. I do like a neutrally balanced gun though. I really notice if they are muzzle or butt heavy. I shoot low gun and delayed release and never much more than two or three skeet rounds at a time anyway. Might start back to doing a fun, low pressure, local sporting league too. But in any event I don't feel the need for anything heavier right now as the O/U I aquire will get carried occasionally for pheasant in steel shot zones anyway.

I really liked my old 101 XTR Lightweight. It must have fit me well because I scored better with it than any other gun I ever competed with. However, like I said, that was many years ago and I haven't shot one since. I'll be considering one of the ol 101's too. Mine did seem to kick pretty hard but I had not yet discovered 7/8 oz. or 3/4 oz. loads back then and always used pretty fast 1 1/8 oz. ammo. I never weighed it but I'm guessing it was only about 7 1/4 lbs. at the most.

Seems like one of the newer lightweight barrel 101's might be good if it balances between the hands. A field version is fine with me. I hope to find a used one.

Again, thanks for the help.
 

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I just got out to fire my New 101 and it is fun and fast. We were shooting doubles and I could go from extreme left to rt and still hit em, the weight and balance just makes it feel like its connected to you as opposed something your trying to control.

As for recoil its no greater than any other o/u or pump I've shot.

The block seems top notch and the ejection system is outstanding, the ejectors fire with authority

The trigger pull to me was light and crisp.

Great gun! Compared to other Citori 'sand features , it seems underpriced.
 

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BarryD said:
The design is not comparable to the Japanese version. It was a modified Superposed design; the new one has Beretta-style studs. The receiver geometry is as different as a Beretta is from a Citori. The name is the only thing the "101s" have in common.

Versus a Beretta, the new 101 has a slimmer buttstock than a 686 12 Gauge, but a little more wood up front. Overall geometry is most similar to an SKB, IMO, but the new 101 isn't so heavy.

The closest new gun you'll get to the original 101 is a Citori, but the old 101 had lightening cuts and usually a tapered forend. Browning eliminated these features about 30 years ago, though early Citoris had them. They were like the Superposed Lightning, which handles remarkably well for its receiver size. Browning has brought back the taper, though with an odd-looking schnabel added to it, with guns like the 625, but the elegant lightening cuts appear to be gone for good, even from the new Belgian Superposed guns from the Custom Shop.
I've often wondered what the term 'lightening cuts' refers to. Perhaps somebody would be kind enough to post a detailed pic. to explain.
 

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I assume that would be "Lightning" cuts, ala Citori Lightning. Slim beavertail forend to you and me.
 
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