Its less than lethal , still lethal. I think it would be best if a less than lethal then the rest whatever you want.They put tails on bean bans now so they fly straighter.
Non-Lethal Alternatives?
I was curious if non-lethal alternatives are on the public market? I've seen how inaccurate the bean-bags are and was more interested in rubber shot shells. I've seen topics talking about everthing from light loads to 00 Buck, but haven't seen anything about rubber shot. If it ever comes down to just putting someone down, -I don't think I would want to ruin my carpet. :hat
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I mean the first shot less than lethal then the rest buck shot or whatever you like.
What would be a circumstance that you'd choose to use a bean bag or rubber shot for self defense?
I can think of only one thing that I use as a non leathal alternative,my dogs, 2labs&2 rottwielers.If that ain't enough to convince some dumb *** that is in my house and should not be there to leave,then the double ought buck fling out the end of my mossy 500 barrel will.The only other thing I can think of is a good 'ol ball bat
I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe that Police officers have to receive training before they can use less lethal rounds, so that they can do so with as little risk to an offender as possible. I live near Columbus, Ohio. About two years back, a rubber pellet took a wild bounce after being shot from an officer's gun, and struck a 19 year old(I think) girl in the eye, blinding her.Even if it doesn't hit an eye, a wild bounce with rubber buckshot will crush a windpipe, or possibly stop a heart by a hard hit to the ribs (though less likely). Even then, if you do not kill the intruder, he/she could bring YOU up on charges. It's not worth the risk. Rubber shot is designed to bounce of any hard surface, you could also hit a solid piece of wood, sending the shot back at you, or a member of your family.If you do decide to invest in rubber shot, make sure you have someone who has had training in how to properly and safely use this ammunition show you how to use it. But I do not recommend any Less Lethal round for Home defense. "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective"--Ted NugentEdited by: Guardian at: 4/28/03 11:45:04 am
Hiding in the corner and wimpering.. assuming the intruder is only the tooth fairy, any other intruder might be lethal.Non-Lethal Alternatives?
Why would you fire a less lethal round in a home defense situation? You may only get one shot.
LTLs are great in a law enforcement capacity, but even then they aren't to be deployed unless the a lethal option is ready to be immediately be deployed. Furthermore, they aren't deployed in an up front deadly force situation. They are used in an attempt to keep a contained situation from becoming a deadly force situation.
I also prefer a dedicated less lethal delivery system. We use a 40mm gun. If a shotgun were to be used for this, it needs to be cleary identified as a less lethal delivery system.
LTLs are great in a law enforcement capacity, but even then they aren't to be deployed unless the a lethal option is ready to be immediately be deployed. Furthermore, they aren't deployed in an up front deadly force situation. They are used in an attempt to keep a contained situation from becoming a deadly force situation.
I also prefer a dedicated less lethal delivery system. We use a 40mm gun. If a shotgun were to be used for this, it needs to be cleary identified as a less lethal delivery system.
do not understand why you would use less lethal ammo, i dont want to kill anyone but if there is an offender in my house i am prety sure he wont have rubber rounds in his pistol, from my point of view rubber rounds are pointless, they are a waste of money as they cost more and will probably get you killed.
I emphatically concur!!!! I would also like to make a few other points. You are either justified to use deadly force or you aren't. Using a less lethal round first isn't going to change that at all. In fact, SCOTUS has ruled if the requirements for the use of lethal force are met that there is no obligation to use a less lethal alternative even if it is available. In fact, in most home defense situations, I would argue that if you took the time to deploy a less lethal round first then maybe you weren't in a truly deadly force situation. You would have been better served by using that time to escape.aaron_c said:do not understand why you would use less lethal ammo, i dont want to kill anyone but if there is an offender in my house i am prety sure he wont have rubber rounds in his pistol, from my point of view rubber rounds are pointless, they are a waste of money as they cost more and will probably get you killed.
Less lethals are a wonderful tool for LE work due to the fact that we are sometimes confronted with barricaded suspects or the suicide by cop crowd. As I said in my previous post in this thread, we always have a lethal option immediately available and usually plenty of it. Less lethals generally aren't going to be used unless the situation is contained.
If your life is on the line are you really willing to take the time to worry about the life of your attacker?
I have a Toyko Marui XM15 Air Electric Gun { AEG } Air Soft, 6mm plastic BBs. Full selective fire capability. It will empty a 68 round mag in about 6 secs. App 300 fps shooting .25 gram BBs. I had the wife shoot me { no kidding 
} at about 85 ft. I was surprised at the sting on bare skin but almost no pain when contacting clothing. At point blank range it would probably draw blood and hurt like heck.
I got to thinking that a gun like this might be a deterent but what happens when the mag is empty or you realize you are in a life or death situation and you have a BB gun in hand instead of a firearm ?
I have also thought about reloading some shotgun shells with these 6mm plastic BBs. Might be handy for small critter control on a farm without spraying lead around.
Lunch calls
} at about 85 ft. I was surprised at the sting on bare skin but almost no pain when contacting clothing. At point blank range it would probably draw blood and hurt like heck.I got to thinking that a gun like this might be a deterent but what happens when the mag is empty or you realize you are in a life or death situation and you have a BB gun in hand instead of a firearm ?
I have also thought about reloading some shotgun shells with these 6mm plastic BBs. Might be handy for small critter control on a farm without spraying lead around.
Lunch calls
I would not use an airsoft gun for hd. That is just asking for trouble.
I think a lot of people here are overreacting and are just repeating the same old tired story with the same hardcore mentality about the home invasion and how you need to have at least a 50mm howitzer to defend your home.
The fact of the matter is less than lethal ammo HAS a place and a role in home defense no matter how small, YOU just don't know what it is. Or maybe it's NOT for you...which is fine. But have you ever thought about since you posting on a shotgun forum and you are so proud of your weapon and how well you got your home and family covered and you'd do anything to STOP someone, have you ever thought there are thousands of shotgun owners who would prefer not to KILL someone?
I bet someone comes back with a stupid remark like "well if you can't pull the trigger to KILL, your shotgun belongs at the gun shop" or "if someone is breaking into my house, I want them dead, I'm not taking any chances." Or even "if you don't intent to kill somebody, you shouldn't be shooting them." Whatever. Come back to reality.
Those are YOUR choices. Stop trying to speak for the next guy. :evil: I can outline at least 10 situations where less than lethal rounds can be properly and legally employed by the HD citizen. :roll: But I won't, because it is a stupid argument that's only a bunch of what-if's and since everybody has their own opinion about what they would or wouldn't do.....
Have you ever seen the owner of a vicious dog (somebody you know) off his property with his dog threatening his neighbor? If you haven't, good for you, cause it happens all the time. Are you telling me that you MUST have a 1 oz Brenneke slug loaded in order to deal with this situation?
The fact of the matter is less than lethal ammo HAS a place and a role in home defense no matter how small, YOU just don't know what it is. Or maybe it's NOT for you...which is fine. But have you ever thought about since you posting on a shotgun forum and you are so proud of your weapon and how well you got your home and family covered and you'd do anything to STOP someone, have you ever thought there are thousands of shotgun owners who would prefer not to KILL someone?
I bet someone comes back with a stupid remark like "well if you can't pull the trigger to KILL, your shotgun belongs at the gun shop" or "if someone is breaking into my house, I want them dead, I'm not taking any chances." Or even "if you don't intent to kill somebody, you shouldn't be shooting them." Whatever. Come back to reality.
Those are YOUR choices. Stop trying to speak for the next guy. :evil: I can outline at least 10 situations where less than lethal rounds can be properly and legally employed by the HD citizen. :roll: But I won't, because it is a stupid argument that's only a bunch of what-if's and since everybody has their own opinion about what they would or wouldn't do.....
Have you ever seen the owner of a vicious dog (somebody you know) off his property with his dog threatening his neighbor? If you haven't, good for you, cause it happens all the time. Are you telling me that you MUST have a 1 oz Brenneke slug loaded in order to deal with this situation?
if someone is threatening me with a dog i will just shoot it in the head with my 9mm. anyway about bruiseds post which says using an airsoft gun for hd i strongley dont recomend that you are more than likley to get killed as you will just piss the guy off, any how you say airsoft bb's in a shotgun shell well i have done this and after 15m accuracy is **** but when you shoot there is a bang about a 1/4 of what firing birdshot would be and there is no recoil but the bbs will go into wood, i suppose they would be good for your whife. are there any shotgun rounds that have aluminium buckshot as recoil would be very minimum.
Mr. Steele,
It seems that no one can sway your opinion one way or the other so no amount of arguing with you will be necessary. Do as you wish with the understanding that there are those out there who disagree with you. I admire the value you place on human life, but I believe that your method of preservation is misguided. Rather than using less than lethal rounds, why not have ADT or BRINKS install a security sysem in your house. Get to know your neigbors and support your local police department as much as possible. Taking steps to ensure that your community is safer can help prevent the use of firearms in a self defense situation. While this advice may help in protecting you and your family remember this: There will always be evil in the world and using less than lethal measures of protection could harm you and your family. As the protector and provider of your household your first priority is ensuring the safety of your family.
It seems that no one can sway your opinion one way or the other so no amount of arguing with you will be necessary. Do as you wish with the understanding that there are those out there who disagree with you. I admire the value you place on human life, but I believe that your method of preservation is misguided. Rather than using less than lethal rounds, why not have ADT or BRINKS install a security sysem in your house. Get to know your neigbors and support your local police department as much as possible. Taking steps to ensure that your community is safer can help prevent the use of firearms in a self defense situation. While this advice may help in protecting you and your family remember this: There will always be evil in the world and using less than lethal measures of protection could harm you and your family. As the protector and provider of your household your first priority is ensuring the safety of your family.
Anybody else have anything concrete to add?
Instead of making up other combat scenarios or changing the subject talking about volunteering or burglars alarms?
Or changing a simple ordinary confontation (which is about 90% of the time), into a all-out Al Queda assault war waged on your home at 3am while you are in bed with your three little babies tucked in upstairs.
:roll: :roll:
Instead of making up other combat scenarios or changing the subject talking about volunteering or burglars alarms?
Or changing a simple ordinary confontation (which is about 90% of the time), into a all-out Al Queda assault war waged on your home at 3am while you are in bed with your three little babies tucked in upstairs.
:roll: :roll:
http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/ ... 18ACE1.asp
The danger is real and if you are not prepared to defend yourself then a victim you will be.
If the above link is not clickable then just go to gwinnettdailyonline.com and look on the front page.
The danger is real and if you are not prepared to defend yourself then a victim you will be.
If the above link is not clickable then just go to gwinnettdailyonline.com and look on the front page.
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