Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am unsure of the proper vernacular, but today I was trying to figure out why my Cynergy continues to have some light primer strikes. I removed the ejector springs and observed the some shells drop below the face of the barrel, especially the top barrel. New shells are flush on the lower barrel but sit slightly low in the bottom barrel. My light strikes also had the primers slightly deeper in their pockets. One batch of old Sovereign reloads was the worst.

I did the same thing with my 686 and found the shells sit level in both barrel’s.

is this common? See a picture of the Cynergy below

Water Wood Gas Rim Circle
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,279 Posts
New shells are flush on the lower barrel but sit slightly low in the bottom barrel.
So are we to assume you are referring to reloads as causing most of your issues? If so and you use a MEC single stage or a MEC Case Conditioner to load make sure the resizer die is set correctly. Handle full down, you have to be able to slide a US dime between the die face and machine base. If the resizing ring is any closer to the base you can squash the rim and cause this issue.
Steve
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ravenanme

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Steve,

That must be the answer. I purchased a new supersizer a few months ago and assumed it was appropriately adjusted by the factory. Reading the instructions for changing the collets I see that the collet needs to be flush with the table. Mine was below it. I thought I was just sizing the diameter, but I can see that your correct that the rim gets sized as well. The instructions don’t really help with this. Are you saying the dime needs to be able to sit on #5 pushed to one side and fit in the groove of the collet? Maybe you could describe for me based on the picture below. I have it adjusted level to the table and now I’d doesn’t seem to be doing anything on recently fired factory loads. How is bolt 17 that stops the handle adjusted?

Font Parallel Microscope Machine Auto part
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,137 Posts
Let's think about this for a second. If the shells sit flush in your Beretta 686 but are at two different depths in your Cynergy, this is NOT a reloading/resizing problem. This is a shotgun problem.

The Cynergy needs to go back to Browning.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,279 Posts
Sorry guys I edited my post. I meant to say MEC Case Conditioner.
Steve
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,279 Posts
Stargazerwa
The "dime" gauge does not apply to the Super Sizer. I edited my original post, my mistake.
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,211 Posts
this is a head space issue.
shot shells just like the 30-30, 22lr, and 38 special head space on the rim.
if you have one barrel letting the hull drop in too deep the ejector needs to be re-fit so you have the proper head space.
re-sizing doesn't affect the rim thickness.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,137 Posts
A primer can be seated not deep enough on a MEC, but very unlikely that they would be set too deep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The gun performs fine with new factory loads and with 98% of reloads. It has always performed with AA CF’s that have been reloaded 10 plus times. The primers do seem too deep on some of the shells that fail to fire. I am not convinced the super sizer isn’t having some impact as well. These cheap euro hulls are easily deformed and the super sizer from the factory was really squeezing the life out of them, in hind sight it wasn’t properly adjusted. I need to get my hands on some range hulls that I have resized to check to see if the sizer adjustment is having an impact.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,821 Posts
Be advised, that I stopped using AAHS-12 hulls because of too much minus variation on rim thickness directly from the factory. Some were more than 0.015" thinner in the rim thickness that is allowed by the manufacturing standard of +0.000-0.005" which results in what you are seeing. Can't say if this is your situation though. If the same hull varies in both barrels, then you might have a gun problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts
In many cases the Gun Problem isn't the barrels, it's poorly fitted or worn firing pins. Firing pins all have a surface that interacts with the firing pin channel to limit the forward stroke of the firing pin. If the tip, which is a reduced diameter projection has been worn or damaged by something like a primer piercing issue that projection can become too short to drive the dimple in the primer deep enough to strike the anvil. Most call this a "light strike" but technically it's really a short firing pin. The solution that will fix this problem every time is a new firing pin and properly fitting it to the gun. BTW, most firing pins today are Inertial and properly fitted they will have enough "over travel" to allow for recessed primers. My general rule of thumb is that you should have enough over travel to pass the thickness of a common dime. The way to test for this is to reach into the action and press the firing pin forward as far as it will go. Note it's best to have the hammer(s) cocked with the safety on when doing this test so you have a clear access point for the rear of the firing pin.

Once you have a firing pin that passes the dime test you then want to check to make sure it is retracting fully behind the breech face. To do this hold a snap cap in place over the firing pin and pull the trigger and keep the trigger pulled. If you see the firing pin sticking out a bit release the trigger and see if the hammer rebounds and allows the firing pin to retract behind the breech face. Note, if the firing pin won't retract behind the breech face DO NOT file back the tip of the firing pin. In this case the area that needs to be ground on is the rear surface where the hammer strikes the firing pin. And yes I did say Grind, because this is a large hardened surface and using a diamond file to remove, say just 1/32 inch, will take you 3 months or more.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
194 Posts
I had a similar problem with a 28ga Cynergy, particularly with several brands of European shells. The rim thickness was variable enough to cause light primer strikes and FTF, particularly in the bottom barrel. It worked fine with Winchester and Remingtons but I used primarily Euro shells for hunting so the gun went down the road. It had a terrible trigger anyway, so I wasn't unhappy to see it go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I was able to gather some more information today about my super sizer adjustment and the impact on some Fiocchi hulls that have never been reloaded. First with these euro hulls the super sizer did impact how the shells sit in the chamber. The first picture is before sizing, the second is after sizing.

Table Wood Rectangle Font Tints and shades


Wood Fluid Drinkware Barware Water


this was repeated several times.

The super sizer was grossly out of adjustment. I am disappointed that MEC shipped it this way and that the adjustment instructions are buried in instructions for changing between gauges. Live and learn. For those that have a super sizer the collet threads sat about 1/16” below the nut. The top of the collet was almost an 1/8” below the table and took tremendous arm power to operate. I adjusted it while reloading shells and it is now set almost flush to the table and such the the shells fit in both guns. I did this in 1/4 turn increments and back it off when shells begin sticking in one gun or the other. The 686 is an omnivore and has not had any issues with any of my reloads. I will mark all future boxes as “properly sized” for shooting in the Cynergy. The biggest problems where in Rio and Sovereign hulls. I don’t think the Cynergy has ever had a light strike in my Remington Premier or AA CF reloads. The pins have nice deep strikes in 99% of the hulls and the gunsmith said they are in good condition.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top