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You mean all the mediocre M class shooter?
3 perfect scores and high scores makes it sound like a monthly SYO shoot.
 

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Except those folks should EXPECT hard targets that challenge everyone at a Regional just like the Open. Maybe we should just take those top dogs, save the ammo and targets and enter them in a shootoff like they need to do with trap and skeet.
 

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I would like to hear Rollins Brown's opinion of the Main Event targets before concluding that the course was set too soft.

It may be that those top ten or so guys are just that good.
Why? I know Rollins, he is an excellent and sponsored shooter; what would that matter?
 

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Most clubs don't have the space to have different courses for the A, B, and C shooters from the Master/AA shooters. Few, if any would want to incur the cost of setting up different courses. Most of them already have to bring in additional machines for the big shoots. Rent for additional machines, extra trappers, more people on keep machines full of targets and fixing problems all runs the cost up. Without the sponsorship/advertising revenue that other sports have, I just don't see it happening.
Not a space issue, you have 3-4 machines on one course with various menus for different classes; yes it would be a royal PITA for the teenage trapper, but then some folks are all about soothing egos and not challenging themselves.
 

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The 3-4 machines per station on one course would resolve the space issue, but there is still the cost of the additional machines to be brought in for a big shoot. When you start doubling the number of machines for each course it would add up. At this regional there were 2 main event courses, 4 5 stands, and separate courses for Super Sport and Providence Cup. Plus the Sub Gauge Course, Sub Gauge FITASC and FITASC.

I was just looking at this from a cost stand point. I am a bean counter, so that is my nature.
And those rental costs are why big blasts cost $1.75/target
 

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20 years ago sporting in the USA was still a young sport. There was not even a course to shoot at in my area.
Make that 40 years ago, and you are more accurate
 

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Shooters that are so-called professionals should be classed in their own class with their own money competing against themselves. If they are sponsored shooter by some vendor/gun maker. As they always say they don’t make the money from shooting it’s from giving lessons, so therefore put them in their own class and the average master class shooter will then compete against individuals on the same level.

The NSCA needs to develop another class!
Actually, we need less. M class was originally designed for just what you seek; then they let a lot more folks who, while good shots, are not at the level of the sport's Masters. Therefore, we need LESS classes, A, B, C and a class for those pros/exceptional shots that typically place in major shoots.
 

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A horse trainer told me it’s not about how good the horse is running, it’s all about who the horse is running against, it’s all about who you’re shooting against, if you know you can’t beat them don’t enter, so choose the “stay home” option or go shoot somewhere else where the shooters are more your level.
Seriously In sporting clays, if you can't game the win you're not going to bother? Then go shoot skeet
 

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What is this walk you speak of. Seems everyone needs a UTV to move 50 yards between stations.
I take it you do not have arthritis issues in your knees, shoulders or back? lugging gun, ammo, water for over a mile in summer heat (to hit 101 today with 95% humidity) tends to make for poor shooting performance, especially as one ages.
 

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As we all know, it is always ALL about the money……sort of a functional dysfunctionality 😂. It’s BIZARRE to see so-called Master Class shooters shooting C class scores in Big Shoots……
It's bizarre to see them shooting C class scores in small monthly shoots at the local club......................................
 

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I’m an occasional D class shooter. A lot of the shoots I have competed in see the D class champ outshoot the B and at times the A class champ. Makes it tough to get punches when the folks supposedly at a D level are so far ahead. But I enjoy my time on the course and the time spent with my son.
Man good shooters, who are new to NSCA, sgtart in D and that is what you're most likely seeing.
 
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override a classification by classifying a shooter based on known ability. Difficult yes, impossible no.
Already on the books, just not really enforced
 

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He said, “an A class shooter who lives in C class will win 98% of the time”.
Then it won't be long before he is punched up to B and so forth. Besides, unless he is at a major big blast, there really isn't a lot of money involved; there are no calcuttas like trap, helice or pigeons
 

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To another subtopic here, I would favor the idea of an M class course at these opens along with a separate course for the mortals that is not designed to challenge Ms which may be too much for B, C, D class morale.

The desired outcome would be to keep encouraging newer shooters to compete in these big events and keep growing the sport.
So you're saying those who aren't in M class can't compete? What about all those in m class who can't compete with C class shooters? We have seen some very impressive scores from folks in lower classes (who are on their way up) and to deny them the opportunity is silly and pandering. Folks who go to the big shoots know to expect targets that will be over the top for a lot of them
 

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It isn't about the money, it's about the competition. I don't compete because I love to win, but I do hate to lose! If I get beat by someone of similar skill level who belongs in my class, I have no issue with anyone but myself. If I get beat by someone who belongs in a class above me, I feel cheated. There doesn't seem to be any easy solution to keeping people honest.
Sure there is, NO classes, you come to shoot to win; if the club wants to spread some cash around, they can do a Lewis payout. Look at the scores at International shoots, no stratification, everyone is equal and has the same chance as the next person.
 

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They also use different tee boxes for different ability levels. If everyone had to play the back tees on every course, there would be less golfers.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
And you say that like it's a bad thing............... :LOL:
 

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Sera,
When are you going to head out West? Those swamp gimme birds you are used to are not much of a challenge😂
Seriously, do you shoot mostly down South, the East coast and Texas? There is some challenging stuff in Arizona and Western States.
When I lived in NV,I was used to using mesas, plateaus, cliffs, mountainsides, etc to make presentations more challenging; moved to Florida and FLAT does not begin to describe the terrain. Gone were targets beneath your feet going away (and downhill to boot), gone were targets coming up from behind a small hill and disappearing behind another. but mostly, gone was the bright clear skies and brown backgrounds which were replaced by clouds and a LOT of green
 

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I live in the SE. Many of the clubs make good use of towers and scaffolding for high stuff. Elevated stands for under the feet presentations.
Sorry, but a high forklift tower is maybe 70-80 FEET. We had a course where the machines were 500 feet higher than the stand off a mesa or mountainside and thrown incoming; another club had a cantilevered stand off the side of a mluntain where the machines were underneath the stand and thrown with max spring downhill at a 60 degree angle -NOTHING in the flatlands of the SE even comes close. Now, some of the quarries in TN and N GA have the same opportunities, but otherwise, it isn't even close.
 
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How about some examples?
Sage Hill is now closed but was et up around a mountain, Walker River near Yerington, NV is set in a huge bowl with hills, mesas, and coulees. Carson Valley Clays also runs around a mountain. Commanche in CA was set in some nice rolling hills (at least years ago when I lived in the area)
One look at Brad's pics of places in AZ and CA will also give you a great idea. Here in the East, look up courses in N GA like Garland Mountain and Noontootla Creek where the courses run along a mountain ridgetop
 

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Sorry, but thanks. I was asking Bangalore what he thought of some different venues.

All those you named are/were great fun.
And I answered your question with some examples
 
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