[gmaxson]

Before taking the clinic this weekend I was hearing 2 stories. 1st was how it was going to ruin my game and take me weeks to get it back, Benders just as good at drinking as he is shooting, he makes you shoot like him etc... and the 2nd being how great of a guy he is and how he is an amazing teacher.

Well, the 1st story is from people that have never met Todd and the 2nd came from people that have taken the clinic. After the weekend I have to agree with story #2, Todd is a great guy and is probably the best "teacher" you could ever hope to get.

Day started out with gun fit. Then off to shoot a normal line, which you are pretty much guarenteed to miss more than normal knowing Todd is watching. Then instruction on 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1.

I was shooting 23's before going and was hoping to take it up a notch by the end of the day. I was a one eye shooter and so the first thing I received was my famed "$400 piece of tape" LOL! Took quite a bit to get used to on high 2 since I now had quite a bit more vision and was still making my "one eye" hard move toward the bird and was leading it too much. Since I had so much more vision, I could now slow way down on it, give it just a little space and was good to go. Amazing how different the lead is with 2 eyes vs one. So with now having 2 eyes, it took some getting used to being able to see so much! Funny how with 2 eyes, high 1, low 1 and low 2, which were a lock for me before are now more difficult due to the different site picture. On the other hand, I am amazed at how easier 3-5 are with being able to pick that bird up so much quicker.

Next change was hold point's. My 1/3 does not equate to Todd's 1/3 and so it took a bit of getting used to. In reality, I think my 1/3 was more, "about right there" and his is more "exactly there" and that makes a huge difference. After that we worked on getting me to shoot lower body. I knew I was an upper body shooter and of the typical 2 birds I drop a line, almost always both were caused by me rolling my shoulders.

Bottom line is, Todd is an amazing instructor! When he tells you where you shot or what you did wrong, he is spot on. It is not some guy at the club that always says "behind", it is "You were behind by a foot and high by a foot and this is why". That information as to where you shot and why you shot there is an invaluable tool and well worth the cost. I shot at the club yester day and posted(in order) a 19,21,22,23,24. Hard to get used to the new style since it is so radically different than my previous "half ***" style. I think quite a few of the stories I heard about people games getting screwed up are from people that came out shooting worse and could not take the blow to their ego or could not look toward the future and reverted back to their old ways. Well, I see the benefit and reasoning behind everything Todd told me and I will be sticking with it! No going back, the man knows what he's talking about and if I shoot for crap for a month, then so be it because I know if I keep at it, it will pay big dividends in the future.

At the end of the day Todd said it will be harder for me to improve than most because at the point your a 23+ shooter, it is the small things that get you, not the major ones. I see what he means, but believe the now having 2 eyes and swinging with my lower body is going to work wonders with me in the near future.

I think the most value would come from a person shooting 21 or less taking the clinic. At the point your dropping 4 birds, Todd can definetly make a world of difference.

I will definetly be taking his clinic again next fall when he comes around. I highly recommend it, to get the most out of it though you must be able to accept taking 2 steps back before 3 forward though, at least in my case.

 

[ShootingStar]

"$400 piece of tape"

I've been shooting with a small Scotch tape dot for over 20 years. So many have the misconception that it hinders peripheral vision, and it's very hard to convince people otherwise. Most never give it enough time, or a fair chance. As you said, nobody wants to take steps backwards to get better.

All in all, it's sounds like you've got a solid foundation for improvement, and a good attitude .

 

[gmaxson]

Yep, I will definetly be sticking with it. I knew going in that I shot "better than most" in my area, but I also knew that I could never count on being consistently better in the long run with my own style that was a combination of 10 different peoples input. I now may be shooting worse for the short term, but have a solid foundation that in the near future will give me the ability to progress farther than I would have otherwise.

The biggest benefit is now being able to look back at the house for the bird while still having the gun out 1/3, with one eye I looked at my hold point. Hard to get used to looking back since with one eye when I did that I had a hard time marrying my vision back to the gun, swinging and judging lead. With 2 eyes it is very easy for me to now look back, see the bird, follow it to my hold point, start the gun moving see the lead and shoot.

I can see where some would find Todd abrasive, he is definetly in his element teaching, but on a 1:1 basis, he is a totally different person than when he is "on the clock" as most of us are.

After shooting for only 6 months, it was really nice to have the chance to step back and get corrected now. I had definetly come close to peaking at my half *** approach and now have a foundation where the glass ceiling is not 23's with the occassional 25. I feel if I stick with what I was taught, the sky is now the limit.

I definetly see why so many people respect the man.

 

[Case]

An excellent review of the clinic -- just excellent.

...Well, I see the benefit and reasoning behind everything Todd told me and I will be sticking with it! No going back, the man knows what he's talking about and if I shoot for crap for a month, then so be it because I know if I keep at it, it will pay big dividends in the future.

And that's exactly what I said in the introduction to my Bender Cheat Sheets.

If you're gonna sit at the feet of the master, at least give his counsel and wisdom a fair chance by doing it his way -- and not lapse back into old habits simply because they're more comfortable.

I'm still having a helluva time with the lower body business, but I'm still working on it.

Now... Let's get to that drinking thing...

Can the man put down the suds or not?

I don't like being around people for any protracted length of time with whom I can't bend an elbow at a bar later on.

As a general thing, I place more trust in the drinking class than I do teetotalers, who have a tendency to be liars and hippocrites..

 

[gmaxson]

It's funny, the thing I struggle with most now that I'm shooting 2 eyes with the tape, is that I see the birds so much quicker that I now need to train myself to shoot them on "my" side of the field. Never had a problem with that with one eye since by the time everything was right it was on "my" side of the field, now I have my lead when it is 1/2 way across the other side of the field and am tempted to pull the trigger on it LOL!

You are absolutely correct about:

"If you're gonna sit at the feet of the master, at least give his counsel and wisdom a fair chance by doing it his way -- and not lapse back into old habits simply because they're more comfortable. "

I didn't spend $400 to say heck with it the next day. I can either stay in my comfort zone and thrive in mediocracy for the next 30 years or take a step back for a few months and be a better shooter for the next 30 years. I just don't get why people would scrap it the next day which I am sure many do. One guy in my clinic that shot 2 eyes got the tape and seemed very upset about it, but the more you watched him, even though he started missing more, you could see his motion was a lot better and even though it was hurting short term it was helping long term. I'll guarentee that he took the tape off when he got home. It's probably is unfair of me to critize people for reverting back to their old ways since after 6 months it is a lot easier for me to scrap my technique for a better one than it would be if it was ingrained in me for 20 years.

Anyway, a big thanks to Case and all those who recommended Todd. I can definetly see making the clinic an annual event.

 

[tinhillbilly]

gmaxson, could you briefly explain what you mean by the "tape"? I am fairly new to this sport and haven't seen or heard of anyone using tape in any way. Thanks.

 

[ShootingStar]

tinhillbilly, It has to do with those of us who have dominent eye issues. Here's a link to one recent thread on the subject. A search will yield PLENTY more. :lol: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 98&start=0

 

[gmaxson]

Shooting Star and other know a lot more about it than myself and that thread covers a lot. The only thing I can add, that I didn't know until Bender, is that the tape is supposed to be placed to block out the barrel. I was never aware that it needed specific placement.

 

[ShootingStar]

...the tape is supposed to be placed to block out the barrel. I was never aware that it needed specific placement.

Good point. You don't know how hard I've trying to get that very simple point across. :lol: The dot doesn't need to be very big, but it definately needs to be in the right place.

 

[Derek 48]

Sounds like I will have to ask Todd if he would like a holliday "Down Under " Just can't see how I could take his clinic any other way

Derek

 

[Customstox]

Was the fee for the seminar $400? And was it a one day affair. Sounds like a bargain to me. How many in the class?

 

[low_8x2]

The fee is about right. As far as I know Todds clinics are limited to 4 people per day unless things have changed. Either 4 all day long or 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. Regardless, you'll shoot between 10 and 20 boxes of ammunition.

 

[gmaxson]

The fee was $375, but I was not a member at the club he came to so $400 a day for me. He takes 4 people and I shot 9 boxes. Todd has the amazing ability to tell you where your shot went on a miss and tell you why it went there, that alone is worth the $$$ since it get's you on track quickly.

A better deal is 1/2 day split between 2 people. You shoot just as much since there are only 2 of you and the price I think is a little less.

I know he travels to other countries since he had just gotten back from a trip to England, from there to RSA and then back to the U.S. It is probably just a matter of getting enough clinics set up in Aus. to take the bite off of paying his travel.

From my Pre Bender post, you can tell that I was questioning the value of the clinic, and so I went in skeptical but was made a believer quickly. It is not just "do it the way I've always done it", he has specific reasons as to "why" he does it a certain way. Because there is a "why" it is very easy to pick up on what he is teaching since it makes sense!

Chic, I'm sure Todd makes it to the West coast some, if not, I think he's here May and Oct ever year, I'm sure the planefare is not that bad. You could probably find a fellow AR forum member to lodge with, namely me. Todd also does clinics in Atlanta also.

 

[infanterene]

I improved after my class with Bender. I think the class is cheap...I would have spent alot more money on shells over the course of a few years and still not learned many things he taught me.

In January I plan to take another class with him.

 

[Baron23]

I'm so glad that you enjoyed the clinic so much and want to congratulate you on a wonderful description of the clinic and its benefits.

My one thought is on the reference you made to the people who say that Todd "tries to make you shoot like him". I can't even come close the low and wide stance of Todd's (not with these knees), but who would not benefit from a little more lower body in their movement. Who has never rolled their shoulders on high 5 that they would have hit if they were pivoting around a point lower in their body. No, I can't shoot with Todd's stance, but his instruction to me to try to get more of my legs and lower body into the shot has never been forgotten.

I also wear tape after my first clinic quite a number of years ago with John Shima...then it morphed into black electrical tape (that's a whole other story I have never regretted with with the exception that it seems a little tougher for me to shoot a pair on station 4 from the low house (coming back). Its a little tougher for me to shift eyes and pick up that second bird (high house) as quickly as if I didn't wear tape. I have to concentrate on a hard shift of the eyes to the left. But i have more problems on double at 4 yet to work out...so I stick with the tape

I have shot a number of times with Todd and John Shima. John and I have spent some social time together and I like to think that we have become friends over the years. I can't agree with you more when you say that they (Todd or John) have a reason for every thing that they tell you and most often the issue is not whether you were ahead or behind but what in your mechanics got you there.

I notice that John, who is a many time world champ, seems to have started to shoot competitively again in earnest. Keep you eye out for this guy...if he gets motivated again you will often see him in the winners circle.

SLM

 

[Skeet Dawg]

Do you still shoot with the black tape? I am trying it this weekend. Thanks.

 

[Baron23]

Yes, I still use the black tape. John, and I suppose Todd may have been involved but the story was related to me by John, told me of a conversation he had with a neurologist. The gist is that with opaque tape a significant amount of light still gets into the left eye even though there is no visual detail. Nonetheless, the brain, whose job it is to integrate the data from both eyes into a single percieved visual picture, will try to use the off eye blur of light coming through the opaque tape and integrate it with the picture from the good eye. Black tape eliminates this.

I don't really notice a difference I don't have any objections to the black tape either. The black tape doesn't bother me and my goal is to not see the target/barrel with my left eye.....the black tape works for that purpose. I like tape much more than squinting or closing one eye because I still have peripheral vision and my comfort level and balance are much better than when closing an eye.

I do not orient my tape vertically...which if I'm not mistaken is what Todd recommended in his article. The reason is that when I am off of the gun and standing in line waiting to shoot I want to still look underneath the tape. In my personal experience, this seems to eliminate a lot of eye strain that builds up through out the event if my left eye is constantly blocked. So, I have a horizontal strip of tape, in a good position for when I'm on the comb, but I can see underneath of it between shots and give my eyes a rest.

Stephen

 

[Otto CO]

Thanks,
Otto...

 

[Skeet Dawg]

Thanks.

 

[Baron23]

Otto - did I understand the title of your post; that you asked if I could post a picture of my glasses? I don't have a digital camera so that's not really feasible.

However, this is what I do...I get thin electrical tape (in any hardware store there is usually wider tape...maybe 1" - 1 1/4" which is too wide for me) and then the narrower tape with looks about 1/2-3/4". I use the narrower tape. I use a strip about 1 - 1 1/4" long and place it horizontally in front of my off eye WITH THE GUN MOUNTED. Then I check that as I move an object (my finger does well here from far left (I am right eyed and cover my left) to the right that where I loose sight of it with my left eye peripheral vision I can pick it up with my right eye. In other words, looking mostly forward, I can't see the end of my gun barrel with my left eye but I do have full coverage from all extremes of peripheral vision.

This is probably way more tape than most use. I've seen everything from a couple of sq inches of tape (looks like a pirate's eye mask to a 1/4" wide dot. To each their own.

My personal situation is that every test that can be performed shows that I am right eye dominant. However, it appears that it is not very dominant, that my eyes are rather balanced. Where the problem comes in is when looking over the barrel to the right at a low house. In that situation, my right eye is way off of the barrel but my left eye is looking right over this big honking barrel and seems then to come more stongly into play. This is apparent to me, when NOT wearing tape, by asymetrical leads on similar targets from the two houses. That is, i would need to see large leads on say a high 4 and much smaller leads on the low 4. This is most accute on low 8 where, without tape, I actually can shoot what looks like just behind the bird yet still smoke it. With tape, the same shot would be a miss behind.

I think that this all gets very personal. Each person is different and what constitutes what they see as off eye dominance issues may also be different from person to person.
A little winter time experimentation can go a long way toward finding out what's good for you.

Stephen