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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys.
I need your counsel on how much differential you allow in your powder drops without worry and a corrective action.

I get my machines all set and pull about 50 loads. So by then I have made individual corrections until all is tweaked and falling as I want.
For example I may be pulling for my 28 and it is as follows.
WAAHS hulls. W209 primer 327.3 gr of hard #9 shot and 17 gr of HS6 powder. MY goal is 17 gr every time.
I can get the shot to fall without deviation but thte powder will drop from 16.8 to 17.1 or 17.2.
I have my scale sitting right beside the loader so I can check the loads and adjust as necessary, no problem. I do not worry about a light drop of a tenth or two but I have worried about the over weight of one or two tenths to the point that I weigh and add or subtract a few grains as necessary to have exactly 17 gr with each load.

It really slows down my loading process so I thought I would ask all of you experienced loaders whether I should worry or just get it as close as I can to the 17 gr and start pulling the handle?

I usually check about every 10th round anyway just to make certain nothing has changed and once I have it dialed in, it seems to be just what I have described every pull.

I would appreciate your thoughts and concerns on this.

Thanks
Kenny
 

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Kenny,
I usually can hold the drops to an occasional 1 tenth deviation in either direction, although 2 tenths is not enough to worry about. For standard, medium pressure, target loads, I would prefer the deviation be on the high side, rather than the low, so as to prevent any sub velocity ammo.

I attribute the vary small deviations I get to the smoothness that the Auto Mate cycles the machines. There is very, very little vibration imparted upon the machine, which will effect powder drop variations to a great degree.

Best advise I can give is to be sure all hand operated machines are bolted down solid to a very sturdy work bench, that is totally solid, and will not give or shake under operation of the presses. Then operate the machines as steady and free of vibrations as is humanly possible. Ram, bang, crash, slam operation will always effect powder drops. Smooth easy and deliberate operation will yield much better consistancy.

Be sure to always use the Red PC Powder Baffle at all times, and always keep the powder bottles at least 1/2 full or better when loading.. Doing this, and keeping press vibrations at a minimum, will yield the best results.

One other thing. DO ground your machines. Static electricity can and does cause irratic powder drops when humidity conditions are just right. It's an easy step, so just do it and eliminate that possibility.

If you need help in grounding the press, just PM me for instructions.

DLM
 

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I don't ground my press, but I do use anti static dryer sheets. I cut them up into strips and hang them from the cap. Not long enough to interfere with the powder despensing, but maybe 3/4th the length of the bottle.

Fixed my problems with static!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys
I am using the red bafffle and believe me the bench is SOLID with a capital C. I do have the hydraulic unit for the loaders but it was given to me already hooked up to the 12 ga machine and I have not loaded the 12 ga so do not know how to use it or to hook it up to the 20 ga or for that matter to the 28 and 410.
I am told it is compatible with all of them.
The 28 and 410 are so easy to pull I did not even consider using it but for the 20 ga and being that I use it more than any of the others I may hook it up to that machine.
I guess I should not be so lazy and put it to use instead of having it sit and gather dust.

I did not know about vibration or excessive movement of the machine while pulling the handle.
I will be a little more careful or at least aware of it, but I have the machine very well lubed and it is really smooth to pull for the 28. VERY little effort.

I have not heard of grounding the machines before but I will contact you to get your ideas on how best to do so.

Most of the time the machines will throw about one tenth differential and most times it is on the high side such as 17.1 and ocassionally a 17.2 and this is what I wondered about as far as having to be SOOO careful.
If, as you say, the one tenth and once in a whille the 2 tenth difference is ot to worry about, then I should be OK. It seldom throws the light load, I was using that as part of the example overall.

Thanks again to you all and Dave, watch for the email.
Kenny
 

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Chris,
There are two ways of effectively grounding your press.

One is to use a metal water pipe that is not isolated by PVC anywhere in the line, and is connected by metal pipe only to your water service entrance. Attach a wire to the pipe and run to the base of your press. You are then grounded.

The other way, if properly grounded water pipes are not available, or an outside ground rod is not feasible, then use the ground circuit in your electrical system.

You must have a 3 wire electrical circuit, (plug in), available to use. The circuit must contain the Hot wire, the Neutral wire, and the Multi grounded MGN ground wire. Never use the neutral wire as a ground. You cannot use this method on 2 wire electrical circuits. (Old style, but they still exist).

Get a spare plug in and attach a #14 stranded copper wire to the round, ground lug of the plug. Attach NOTHING to the two flat spade lugs of the plug in. Plug this into your closest and most convenient electrical outlet. Run this #14 wire to your press and attach to the press base, or use an alligator clip if you will be changing from press to press.

Either of these methods will effectively ground your presses, and will bleed off any static electricity that may occur from time to time.

DLM
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Dave;

I got the info from your post and will be doing some loading this evening.
I will hook up the ground before proceeding and will let you and the other guys who have posted with interest know what the results are when I try it all together.

No need to PM until I have some results at this point.

KW
 

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UncleFudd said:
Most of the time the machines will throw about one tenth differential and most times it is on the high side such as 17.1 and ocassionally a 17.2
I get more than that with Universal Clays, and I'll get nearly +/- .4 grains with big flake powders like Promo.
 

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Hello Kenny;

Where you been ?
Have not seen you for awhile.

As for the 28ga. I use 17.5 gr of HS6(your component list is what I use also).

See you around...
_________________
Student Loan Forums
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey Mr. C;
Good to hear from you. I been down in fact I almost made the big sleep. I had a heart attack three weeks ago but am back on my feet so to speak and the reason I am having some time to concentrate on my reloading. But I will see you soon out at the club and explain it there.

I guess I may not have too much to worry about if you are using that load regularly as you are using the same gun and tubes that I do. This si the load I have used from the beginning and it was recommended by DL Marcum so I set a lot of store by what he has recommended in the past. Everything he has given me has worked flawlessly. But you are at least 3 or 4 tenths above me and having no problems.

But I wanted to thank everyone and to let you all know that Dave did it again. I went out to actually check my bench to be sure it is as solid as I thought it to be. It is and then some. In pulling the handle on all three of my 9000 G model loaders there is not a bit of movement of the bench. Zero, Zip, it is SOLID and does not move or even vibrate that is at all noticeable.

Then as DL recommended, I had some real work to run a copper lead to ground my machine(s). I grounded them to the water pipes on the side of my reloading shed and tested them to be sure I had good connections.
I can't believe it and would not believe the extent of the effectiveness of the grounding if I were not here toi actually see it and to observe the results. I had never heard of grounding the machines.
In fact I took the time to run a base wire along the wall and then a drop from the base wire to each machine individually. Wallah, I pulled about 50 rounds of each 20 and 410 and 100 28 and now the powder does not hang on the walls or lids of the powder bottles and after making one small adjustment to my 28 ga bushing, it is dropping 17 gr of HS6 EVERY pull. I did nothing else, but I weighed over half of the 28s as I loaded them and they did not vary a tenth. I have been sweating this situation since I started and it is fixed in one afternoon with the right help.
As for the red baffle. I had problems with my powder leaking along the top of the charge bar and asked for help on the old NSSA forum. Jim Miller and Little J Walker came to my rescue and told me about the red baffles. As soon as I put them on all three machines the problems went away.

It is truly a great thing this forum and others like it for what it does for each of us.
The help we get here is just one more manifestation of the good in the people who shoot, in this case scatter guns.
I have been in the shooting business for nearly 40 years and full time for the past 29 of those 40. In every firearms class that I have taught and in every instructor workshop I have held I have said and will say again "THE LAST OF THE MOST HONEST PEOPLE REMAINING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU WHO OWN THEIR GUNS LEGALLY."
I can't tell you how many times every day week month and year I see things and hear things that prove this beyond a doubt.
Are there a few jerks, yep I suppose there are, but they are so few and far between they seem to be almost non-entities.
WE take care of our own and so many like DL Marcum who receive nothing offer their invaluable experience and knowledge to help others just because they can, and they enjoy apparently what they do.
I have made no secret of how I feel about Dave and he is only one so many all of us know or have met or hear about.
DL did not know me from a bad apple but he did not hesitate the very first time to help me with loads. I was absolutely virgin to the shotshell reloading game. (I have loaded hundreds of thousands of pistol and rifle cartridges) but never shotshell.
This man has spent countless hours helping me and I know he has done the same for countless others because I have talked to and met people he has helped.
You all know how it is to be frustrated by a persistant and pesky problem. This powder drop has been a real thorn for me so to have it solved in such a short time and with so little effort just by knowing where to look and having the idea of what to do.

So thanks again to DL and to every one of you great people who make up this game we play with shotguns and for sharing your time, experience and knowledge with those of us who ask for your guidence by stepping up on this forum or at the range or your club.
You are priceless, in spite of what your wife says and the NSSA is what it is (just one example) directly and very specifically due to you all.
 

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I'll be damned! I've been loading for 18 years with a 9000g and have had intermittnet problems with static. I NEVER thought about grounding. I tried the wire using a spare plug, pluged into my wall socket. My reloading buddy came over while I was doing the connections and he had a good laugh at my expense. But I had the last laugh! It worked like a charm! Thanks y'all!
 

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Bobshouse said:
I don't ground my press, but I do use anti static dryer sheets. I cut them up into strips and hang them from the cap. Not long enough to interfere with the powder despensing, but maybe 3/4th the length of the bottle.

Fixed my problems with static!
Correct!. I had a severe static problem last winter, and none of that grounding stuff did anything at all to help, if anything, it made it worse. The problem is the plastic powder bottle, in that you can get 2 vastly different static electricity potentials on the outside surface of the bottle, and the inside surface of the bottle (and the powder).

The dryer sheets did the trick, and I tuck the outside edge under the bottle support. What is really needed is a simple "drain wire" grounded to the fame of the 9000 (bottle support is fine) and dangling inside the powder bottle, and hanging down inside the powder as far in as possible without interfering with the powder bushing.

MM3
 
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