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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I though I would put this together and state the obvious. I will suffer the wrath of your commentary. These might answer a lot of COMMON questions.
Try to keep your sense of humor. This is bit of everyone's notes in the past. .

What slug gun do I buy ? The one that you can afford for your type of hunting and range. Some accurate values in single shots are out there. 20ga are gaining favor over 12 ga. with knowledgeable shooters.

I will be hunting in an area that only allows a 50yd shot but I want to be able to use the same sights JUST IN CASE a deer comes out at 175 yds. How do I do this reliably? You have to make some real choices here. It is difficult to do both well. A lot of practice and prayer may help. BDC reticles do have their limitations.

What is the best ammunition for me ? The one that works well in your gun/rate of twist and type of hunting you will do. Certain brands are gaining a reputation for accuracy. I.E. Accu-tips. You will have to try a variety yourself. Read up about slower twist demands in slug barrels.

What kind of scope should I buy ? Buy a scope that has a solid reputation in performance and customer service . If you buy used wisely from a premier mfg. you will save money and get quality/value in the transaction. (J.C. is an advocate of this policy. We both like LEUPOLDS.) Variable power seems to be the way to go. Bigger is not always better.


What type of slug guns are the most accurate ?
Relatively speaking single shots and bolt actions seem to be the best performers.

I want my slug gun to shoot like a rifle how do I do it ? Buy a muzzle loader and be done with it.

I just bought a slug gun from my buddy (I watched him get great groups with it.)Why can't I. I am using the same ammo. OPERATOR ERROR

What do I need to do to be a successfull hunter? Read, listen to other peoples opinion judiciously and have patience.. These last three are the most important PRACTICE, AND PRACTICE CORRECTLY AND BE REALISTIC.

There ! Those are some. Jump in and add a few we may make it a sticky. By all means keep reading information from all sources. It may leave you a bit foggy but it will all clear up in time.
 

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Neo
I want my slug gun to shoot like a rifle how do I do it ? Buy a muzzle loader and be done with it.
+1 on that Neo. The manufacturers have been pushing the 200 yard slug for years. Sure there are a few guys who can make that shot w/the proper equipment, lots of expensive practice (and a bit of luck). But the reality is most guys (and guns) simply aren't capable of making that shot with any repeatability. Many hunters won't invest the cash in ammo to practice with (and even if they did) don't have a range longer than 100 yards to practice on. They watch these tv hunters and figure if they can shoot a decent group @ 100 yards, then when a deer walks out @ 150-200 yards, they're going for it. In other words, just because you're wearing tv hunter clothing and the ammo ad said you're good to go @ 150-200 yards doesn't mean you should chance it. Deer aren't meant for target practice.

Neo
What type of slug guns are the most accurate ? Relatively speaking single shots and bolt actions seem to be the best performers.
True, but pumps and semi's offer faster follow up shots for thick areas and drives and are accurate @ most woods ranges.

Neo
Buy a scope that has a solid reputation
Quality optics will hold up to the recoil generated by slugs while cheap ones may for a while, but will eventually give up the ghost. But don't make the mistake of mounting good optics w/crap rings. I've used good rings for years and never had them fail.

Neo
What do I need to do to be a successfull hunter? Read, listen to other peoples opinion judiciously and have patience.. These last three are the most important PRACTICE, AND PRACTICE CORRECTLY AND BE REALISTIC.
As we all know, being a successful hunter requires more than just shooting practice (and the latest gadgets). I start scouting as soon as the season ends, look for sheds and prepare stand sights before spring green up. I scout for deer during the Spring/Summer and check existing stands, hang new stands, and prepare my entry/exit paths @ least a month before the next season begins.

Good topic Neo.
 

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As long as that ML is a smokeless powder type, it may be usefull on deer beyond 150 yards, otherwise it is lacking in the energy department compared to todays better sabot 12 ga shotgun slugs, as are todays best 20 ga loads. Keep your shots broadside and behind the shoulder and you might be ok at 200 yards with a pyrodex/777,blackpowder ML, otherwise not.
 

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Not trying to be argumentative or a troll but if you want long range capability in a muzzle loader where you are using only BP and substitutes and not smokeless the way to go is to match BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) loads and therefore their ballistics. I'm talking about "Buffalo Guns" lots of knock down and long range capabilities. In other words for example if an individual were to have a 45-cal three pellet 150gr. magnum capable BP muzzle loader lying around. A normal loaded for which consists of a plastic sabot with a little plastic tipped pistol bullet in it with three fifty grain pydrox pellets underneath it. For long range knock-down power one would instead load it with a lighter charge of powder lets say 70 to 80 grains and a big heavy "minie ball" either full bore and lubed or slightly undersized and paper-patched --- lets say in the 350 to 500 grain range thus producing a BP muzzle loader load that esentially has the same ballistics as a 45-70 and with sufficient practice and proper sights to componsate for the rainbow shaped flight path that combination will give you true 200+ yard fire-power which isn't limited to perfect broad side only shots. The same can be done with the 50-cal and larger. More lead and less powder = long range knock down when it comes to using true black --- true black just don't work for light bullet high velocity flat shooting loads over long-ish range.

Point being you don't need a smokeless muzzle-loader to reach out to 200 and beyond you just need to use the right kind of load combination and you can do it with a regular smoke-pole.
 

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neophyte said:
tommygirlMT,

Well so much for the simplistic answers. :wink:
LOL Neo,

That is exactly what I was thinking! Even more so, recomending a firearm with what is admittedly a "rainbow trajectory" to a hunter that is looking for rifle like performance is not going to get you far.

A modern muzzleloader, and specific a modern smokelss muzzlleloader, absolutely will however. (As is evidenced by there ever increasing popularity for whitetail hunting).

JC
 

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jcchartboy said:
A modern muzzleloader, and specific a modern smokelss muzzlleloader, absolutely will however. (As is evidenced by there ever increasing popularity for whitetail hunting).
For sure! Here's a group I shot the other night with my 45cal 10MLII. Not a great group ~2.1" CTC, but wind was swirling around at about 15MPH. I'm shooting a pretty standard load at around 2650-2700FPS with a 200gr bullet. As you can see, I'm a touch low at 140. I shot a couple of shots at 56 yards the other day and was a 1/2" low. It's very flat shooting. :D

 

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/

That was a whole lot of fun to read Neophyte.

Okay so here's my question.

Which Shotgun should I buy?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

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/

The Law in my state demands I have a LIMITER and load no more than Three Shells total.

How can I load six shells and not get caught?
 

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I like to wear Buckskin when I go Deer-Hunting. None of my buddies want to come with me. How can I find a a Hunting Partner?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Calisto asked :

"Which Shotgun should I buy?" The type you will be REALLY happy with.

"The Law in my state demands I have a LIMITER and load no more than Three Shells total. How can I load six shells and not get caught? " Load it in two separate guns.


"I like to wear Buckskin when I go Deer-Hunting. None of my buddies want to come with me. How can I find a a Hunting Partner? " Just look for the guy who wears the Fuschsia Suede Hunting boots and ask him.

There. That should answer those. :wink: :wink:
 

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Please tell me you don't know any other hunters who wear fuchsia suede hunting boots!!!!! I'd be so embarrassed running into someone else wearing the same boots in the woods. What a fopaux that would be!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As a matter of a fact I DON'T. As Robin Williams said through his ("sensitive" Mr. Leo) in "Good Morning Vietnam" about uniforms ............ "

"We've got a special man in the audience today right now. It's Mr. Leo. He's a fashion consultant "Thank you, I'm just very happy to be here. I want to tell you something." What's that? "You know, this whole camouflage thing, for me, doesn't work really well." Why is that? "Because if you go in the jungle, I can't see you. You know, it's like wearing stripes and plaid. For me, I want to do something different. You go in the jungle, make a statement. If you're going to fight, clash. You know what I mean? " :wink:
 

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Yes, in retro spect, I agree my post was a little off topic.

It just gets under my skin when people make statements about certain guns and cartridges being inadequate for certain purposes --- it's all in the loading and the hunters technique. With the right load combination and hunting technique you can take down elk and bear with a muzzle-loader that is BP and not smokeless. I've done it !!!!
 

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No one said you could not take any animal with a BP ML, just that energy is usually not adequate for anything but broadside, behind the shoulder shots past 150 yards. A 12 ga shotgun with modern sabots will do a good job killing quick on "other" shots, beyond that range (I have done it), where significant muscle or bone must be penetrated requireing a bit more oomph. I have also experienced an energy related failure to kill quick on a quartering away shot with a ML at 150 yards. I never said accuracy is not important but I can get equal or better accuracy from my rifled, bolt-action shotgun than I can from my non-smokeless ML. Double the energy at 150+, same or better accuracy, two extra shots, makes my weapon choice at long range a slam dunk in favor of a good bolt-action shotgun during regular season in a non-rifle zone. If and when I ever get another ML, it will likely be a smokeless, but I am scared a bit that my state (NY) might close that loophole. Until then, I will limit all my shots at over 100 yards with my non-smokeless model to broadside since learning that lesson the hard way. Unfortunately, that cuts my shot opportunities in half or so. Luckily, I can usually fill most or all of my tags before ML season starts thanks to that tack-driving, hard hitting Marlin512.
 

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tommygirlMT said:
Not trying to be argumentative or a troll but if you want long range capability in a muzzle loader where you are using only BP and substitutes and not smokeless the way to go is to match BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) loads and therefore their ballistics. I'm talking about "Buffalo Guns" lots of knock down and long range capabilities. In other words for example if an individual were to have a 45-cal three pellet 150gr. magnum capable BP muzzle loader lying around. A normal loaded for which consists of a plastic sabot with a little plastic tipped pistol bullet in it with three fifty grain pydrox pellets underneath it. For long range knock-down power one would instead load it with a lighter charge of powder lets say 70 to 80 grains and a big heavy "minie ball" either full bore and lubed or slightly undersized and paper-patched --- lets say in the 350 to 500 grain range thus producing a BP muzzle loader load that esentially has the same ballistics as a 45-70 and with sufficient practice and proper sights to componsate for the rainbow shaped flight path that combination will give you true 200+ yard fire-power which isn't limited to perfect broad side only shots. The same can be done with the 50-cal and larger. More lead and less powder = long range knock down when it comes to using true black --- true black just don't work for light bullet high velocity flat shooting loads over long-ish range.

Point being you don't need a smokeless muzzle-loader to reach out to 200 and beyond you just need to use the right kind of load combination and you can do it with a regular smoke-pole.
Go tommygirlMT!!!

Whitworth .45 caliber muzzleloader of the 1860's could deliver a 500+ grain bullet with over 1100 fpe remaining at 200 yards and enough penetration to shoot through a bull bison at that range!

Big bullets work and the game does not have to broadside to take the shot!

For details: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Fieldtest6.html

RMc
 
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