Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have spent all of this year trying to get my Kolar to shoot well for me but it just hasn't worked out. I have shot around 7,000 rounds through it this year and I probably should have given up on the gun 4,000 rounds ago but I am not a quitter and apparently not real smart. I really like the gun but in over twenty years of shooting sporting clays competitively I have never shot nearly as poorly as I shoot with the Kolar. Let me repeat that I really like the gun, it is beautiful, it moves as smooth as butter, it is heavy but feels light in the hands, the trigger is one of the best, it feels good in the hands even when you miss a target, it is all you could hope for in a high quality high dollar shotgun. The Kolar is certainly on par with the Krieghoff and Perazzi and maybe better in some areas. Sure, part of the problem is me but I really can not explain the other part but there is something that keeps me from scoring well with the gun. I am going to make one more, last time, shooting the pattern board this week but unless a big light comes on I am going back to my Krieghoff. I am not blaming the gun, it is just a me/gun not bonding thing. I will probably keep working with it in the background but it is not going to be my main gun moving forward.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
993 Posts
I switched from k80 to Kolar in october2021 after shooting the K80 for 27 years. Took about a month to come up to speed. First month was trial and error adding forward and back. Found the Kolar needed some weight under the forearm to start to feel more like the k80. Both guns are around 10.5#s
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I switched from k80 to Kolar in october2021 after shooting the K80 for 27 years. Took about a month to come up to speed. First month was trial and error adding forward and back. Found the Kolar needed some weight under the forearm to start to feel more like the k80. Both guns are around 10.5#s
We are in similar positions with regards to the Krieghoff, I started shooting mine in 1998. I bought the Kolar about a year ago but it just hasn't worked out for me. For a couple years I switched from my K-80 to a Beretta 391 when they were the rage and had no problems switching back and forth between the two. One thing they both have in common though is that they both have custom made stocks. The Kolar has a factory stock.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
993 Posts
It’s been interesting, I started shooting the Kolar just after the world shoot last year. As of now my 4 gun average is very close to last years. My reason for the switch was k80 pierced Cheddite primers and even after Ottsville worked on it continued to pierce Cheddite primers, no issue with the Kolar.
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I understand that. My K-80 won't shoot steel based hulls in the upper barrel, they stick big time. Also, some steel based rounds stick in the lower barrel but it depends on the maker, Now that you mentioned it maybe I need a new barrel for my K-80 because I am sitting on about 8,000 rounds of steel based shells. Life is hard!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
I've followed your threads on your Kolar problem. I couldn't remember whether you had patterned the gun or not, but I think it is a good idea to see the results you get this week on the pattern board. I got my Kolar in February and just assumed that the barrel regulation would be perfect......after all I was told that it was patterned at the factory. For the first month I was very frustrated, because of the number of missed targets with the gun. When I finally took it to the pattern board and shot the gun off a lead sled, I found that the top barrel was shooting 10" low at 40 yards. I sent the barrel back to Kolar and they changed out both hangers to get the barrels shooting pretty close to the same POI. I've spent the months since tweaking the pattern by changing the front hanger until I'm really close to having it shoot where I'm looking. I'm hoping your problem will be something like this that can be fixed fairly easily. GOOD LUCK!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
Finding I have a similar pattern with mine. I just don't love the Kolar as much as I loved my K80. For what it's worth, if you don't truly love the gun you shoot, you just won't excel with it. I am a huge believer in this concept, and I think it's a missing mental link with many shooters. The guys who truly love their guns don't think about anything except the bird. They're linked, man and machine come together for a fluid result. Poetic and cliche but I believe it. For reference..I shoot my 870 wingmaster 28ga with a 28" simmons skeet barrel better than my Max Skeet Lite...makes me want to puke at times lol. I love that little $500 beater, and sadly more so than my Kolar, and mine has a real pretty piece of walnut on it.

So, I'm waiting on Paxton to get something enticing in his pre-owned section before I call him up to haggle. Just my 2 cents.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
We are in similar positions with regards to the Krieghoff, I started shooting mine in 1998. I bought the Kolar about a year ago but it just hasn't worked out for me. For a couple years I switched from my K-80 to a Beretta 391 when they were the rage and had no problems switching back and forth between the two. One thing they both have in common though is that they both have custom made stocks. The Kolar has a factory stock.
I am curious, why not a custom stock for the Kolar? That seems like the missing link in my mind...Good luck with your process.
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am curious, why not a custom stock for the Kolar? That seems like the missing link in my mind...Good luck with your process.
Your point is well taken and getting a custom stock has crossed my mind but it would add an additional $7,000 to $8,000 to the total cost of the gun and it would be an additional loss if I decide to sell the gun since you really can't get your money back on a custom stock. Also, as I might have mentioned previously the gun feels really good, as good as my custom stocked K-80.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
I have spent all of this year trying to get my Kolar to shoot well for me but it just hasn't worked out. I have shot around 7,000 rounds through it this year and I probably should have given up on the gun 4,000 rounds ago but I am not a quitter and apparently not real smart. I really like the gun but in over twenty years of shooting sporting clays competitively I have never shot nearly as poorly as I shoot with the Kolar. Let me repeat that I really like the gun, it is beautiful, it moves as smooth as butter, it is heavy but feels light in the hands, the trigger is one of the best, it feels good in the hands even when you miss a target, it is all you could hope for in a high quality high dollar shotgun. The Kolar is certainly on par with the Krieghoff and Perazzi and maybe better in some areas. Sure, part of the problem is me but I really can not explain the other part but there is something that keeps me from scoring well with the gun. I am going to make one more, last time, shooting the pattern board this week but unless a big light comes on I am going back to my Krieghoff. I am not blaming the gun, it is just a me/gun not bonding thing. I will probably keep working with it in the background but it is not going to be my main gun moving forward.
I had to make sure this wasn’t a post I wrote myself. 😬

For me it’s been 2 years and close to 30k rounds. I just decided to go back to my beretta 686 for the rest of the skeet season. After that it’s time to look for a replacement for the kolar.
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've followed your threads on your Kolar problem. I couldn't remember whether you had patterned the gun or not, but I think it is a good idea to see the results you get this week on the pattern board. I got my Kolar in February and just assumed that the barrel regulation would be perfect......after all I was told that it was patterned at the factory. For the first month I was very frustrated, because of the number of missed targets with the gun. When I finally took it to the pattern board and shot the gun off a lead sled, I found that the top barrel was shooting 10" low at 40 yards. I sent the barrel back to Kolar and they changed out both hangers to get the barrels shooting pretty close to the same POI. I've spent the months since tweaking the pattern by changing the front hanger until I'm really close to having it shoot where I'm looking. I'm hoping your problem will be something like this that can be fixed fairly easily. GOOD LUCK!
I have patterned the gun numerous times. This has actually been going on for a year. All of this is in a previous Kolar post but I wound up sending the gun back to Kolar last December because the gun shot low. It is a flat rib intended to shoot 50/50 and Kolar did fix the barrel, they are an excellent company to work with and they gun is as good as any it just isn't working for me and I am sure that I have mentally lost confidence in the gun.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
If the lower barrel shoots way low, I agree with working on the hangers. If both barrels shoot way low, I would work on the comb height instead.

I would also clean the chokes thoroughly. They build up plastic from the wads, and what's labelled IC might shoot like a Mod or Light Full if its caked up. To tell, unscrew each one, and look in with an LED flashlight. You can also tell by touching inside with a finger-tip, it should be glass-smooth when clean. Just looking inside without a flashlight is a good way to fool yourself.

I have also seen used Kolars (did you get yours new or used?) come with the wrong chokes. If a choke says MOD, but was intended for a .740 bore, and you have a .750 bore, it will shoot like a FULL choke or whatever. To diagnose this, disciplined patterning (as below) can give good clues, but to really tell, you'd need a bore gauge (or confirmation of the barrel's bore from Kolar or a good gunsmith) and an inside caliper.

It's hard to help without seeing your patterns. At one range our "patterning board" is a grease board, with maybe a million shots on it to date, so it's very difficult to get a clear pattern & firm conclusion. I made my own pattern target stand out of 2x2s and PVC pipe, and I staple on the NRA 30" shotgun patterning targets. Then you know what you're really getting. Pace it off as accurately as you can. Pattern is highly dependent on distance. Like Ernest said, use a lead sled, or some similar solid rest for patterning, not freehand.

While you're at it, I would definitely do a couple of patterns with your Krieghoff. We know you like the results with it, so if the Kolar differs, then you'll have isolated the problem(s).
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If the lower barrel shoots way low, I agree with working on the hangers. If both barrels shoot way low, I would work on the comb height instead.

I would also clean the chokes thoroughly. They build up plastic from the wads, and what's labelled IC might shoot like a Mod or Light Full if its caked up. To tell, unscrew each one, and look in with an LED flashlight. You can also tell by touching inside with a finger-tip, it should be glass-smooth when clean. Just looking inside without a flashlight is a good way to fool yourself.

I have also seen used Kolars (did you get yours new or used?) come with the wrong chokes. If a choke says MOD, but was intended for a .740 bore, and you have a .750 bore, it will shoot like a FULL choke or whatever. To diagnose this, disciplined patterning (as below) can give good clues, but to really tell, you'd need a bore gauge (or confirmation of the barrel's bore from Kolar or a good gunsmith) and an inside caliper.

It's hard to help without seeing your patterns. At one range our "patterning board" is a grease board, with maybe a million shots on it to date, so it's very difficult to get a clear pattern & firm conclusion. I made my own pattern target stand out of 2x2s and PVC pipe, and I staple on the NRA 30" shotgun patterning targets. Then you know what you're really getting. Pace it off as accurately as you can. Pattern is highly dependent on distance. Like Ernest said, use a lead sled, or some similar solid rest for patterning, not freehand.

While you're at it, I would definitely do a couple of patterns with your Krieghoff. We know you like the results with it, so if the Kolar differs, then you'll have isolated the problem(s).
Thanks for your thoughtful post. If you go back to the list of Kolar posts, about 2/3rds the way to the bottom I have a post called Kolar Flat Rib Sporting. On page 2 I have a post that has pictures of my Kolar, Krieghoff and Beretta 682 on the pattern board. I could have also added both of my Beretta 391's and they would shoot the same as the K-90 and Beretta. My K-80 and main 391 both have custom stocks but my 682 and other 391 were set up by Bob James who made my custom stocks so it really is not fair to the Kolar. The Kolar was brand new (not purchased used) when I shot these. I sent the Kolar back to the factory and they changed out the hangers and whatever and sent it back shooting 50/50. I have raised the comb some trying to get it to shoot a little closer to 60/40. I have shot about 150,000 rounds 60/40 so changing to 50/50 has been really difficult for me. I shoot it better than in the beginning but my average in competition is over 17 targets per 100 less than when I was shooting my K-80 and I have put about 7,000 - 9,000 rounds through the Kolar.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Wow. I am a huge Kolar fan, but being down 17 targets per 100 is a lot, probably too much.
I don't know what else to suggest, assuming you are cleaning the chokes about the same on all the guns.
I never liked the flat-rib myself, I prefer the old step-rib, or the newer "sporter", aka ramp-taper. I have a flat-rib barrel that received an add-a-rib or whatever, it now has the same geometry as the other two I just mentioned (rib is about 5/16" high at the peak above the chambers, then slopes downward to the muzzle). It shoots fine for me, and matches the other (step-rib) barrel (in terms of exact elevation) that I use on that same receiver.
Are your Krieghoff and Beretta also flat-ribs??
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wow. I am a huge Kolar fan, but being down 17 targets per 100 is a lot, probably too much.
I don't know what else to suggest, assuming you are cleaning the chokes about the same on all the guns.
I never liked the flat-rib myself, I prefer the old step-rib, or the newer "sporter", aka ramp-taper. I have a flat-rib barrel that received an add-a-rib or whatever, it now has the same geometry as the other two I just mentioned (rib is about 5/16" high at the peak above the chambers, then slopes downward to the muzzle). It shoots fine for me, and matches the other (step-rib) barrel (in terms of exact elevation) that I use on that same receiver.
Are your Krieghoff and Beretta also flat-ribs??
My K-80 is their basic Sporting model, if you can call any of their guns basic, it is the original sporting in Super Scroll with a gold target super scroll toplatch, a custom stock and a fixed choke 32" barrel that Briley turned into a thin wall. The Beretta and 391 are flat ribs. However, I do really like everything about the Kolar which is a Regal with a leather recoil pad and a spare trigger, upgraded Turkish Walnut, basically everything you could wish for in a shotgun. Enough engraving and stylish wood to set it above most but not so much that you need to worry about it.
Ok, the whole story, almost, is that I was off of shooting and competing pretty much since 2015, maybe shot a couple thousand rounds in 2016 to July/August of last year. Still ,I put about 8-10k rounds shooting sporting with about 2K in tournaments since buying the Kolar last year. My current stock guys are S & S in Montana. John Raymond who made my last two stocks said that the Kolar stock was different than my actual stock measurements of the custom stocked K-80 they made for me and that I could probably shoot it well but not to where I shot the K-80. I was actually looking for a Perazzi when I saw the Kolar's on Robert Paxton's website and how can you not fall in love with the upgraded wood. Anyway Robert sent me a ramped rib to try which I liked and I wound up buying the Kolar, in part because I think it is a hassle figuring out what you want in a P-Gun. I wanted the flat rib for two reasons, first I liked the theory of shooting 50/50 with the bird off of the bead vs my K-80 and others I have that are 60/40 in which I float most targets. Secondly, I am left eye dominant and shoot right handed both eyes open and felt the low rib would propose less distractions for my left eye to focus on. I saw this when shooting a friend's high rib gun some years ago when they were the rage and my left eye took over everything. So, I felt a flat rib would have the opposite effect giving less for my left eye to focus on. This proved out to be true. Because of my situation I always shoot low gun so my left eye has less of a chance to take over. I also turn my head severely to the left when having a left to right crosser for the same reason. Well, that is a lot to digest. I will add that I took lessons from Roger Silcox out of England years ago and he told me it was impossible to do what I was doing at a tournament that I took second place and actually was in first until he made me doubt myself, not his fault, I let him do it. I also took a one day private lesson from Andy Duffy who said my left eye was not in play as the master eye. Lastly I spent a couple days privately with Anthony Materese which he never said anything about the way I shot. That's about it, kinda complicated at first but after about 20 years it is no longer a big deal. I have shot some of the best scores ever shooting both eyes open and once upon a time I tried shooting left handed during the off season and it worked pretty well but sometimes my brain would not pull the trigger and sometimes I would crawl over the stock and lastly I would shoot some targets left handed and the ones that were not set up for lefty's I would shoot right handed, it freaked people out. Just a note, I have shot 70,000+ in tournaments and at least that in practice. I have also been doing this since 1997 so I am not a novice at this, but I don't know everything and listen to overs. At this point I am likely going back to the K-80 for a couple months while seeing if I can make the Kolar work. Last year Kolar offered to send me a ramped rib N/C but I wasn't ready. I might be ready now but first I will look at comb adjustment and think if I need a custom stock. I do really like the flat rib but I am no longer going down in flames over it.
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Also, time is not on my side if you know what I mean. I have 5 maybe 10 years left until my time is up so I don't want to waste time trying to get it right,
 

· Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Very interesting. Far be it for me to critique your eye-strategy. Sounds like you've been pretty thorough there.

Do you know which targets you miss with the Kolar and why? Is it a recoil thing, or perhaps because of the gun swinging too fast ahead of a target, or too slowly & falling behind? If you mentioned earlier, I apologize for missing it.

Since you've also been thorough with the patterning and having Kolar rework the hangers, and/or if it's "yes" to a swing issue, I should ask about balance. With it unloaded, try to balance it on an index finger. Where is the balance point? Is it right under the break-action hinge pin, or ahead of it, or behind it, and by how much? I would then compare that to your K-80's balance point. Some people prefer slightly front-heavy, or slightly tail-heavy, some not-so-slightly, some right in the middle, and the only answer that matters here is what you prefer. I would guess that your Kolar and Krieghoff aren't balanced the same. If so, I would try to add or move weight to make it similar in balance to your K-80.

I am a big fan of running one gun you know works for you, while you experiment and fine-tune to try to get another one up to speed.
 

· Premium Member
Now shooting a Kolar Regal Flat Rib Sporting with a K-80 Super Scroll back up.
Joined
·
397 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I went back to the pattern board yesterday and the gun is shooting low once again. Not as bad as it was originally but with a 20 inch diameter pattern the spread is 8 inches above and 12 inches below the mark and with that the core is about 2 inches low. I can break a lot of targets the way the gun is but I also miss a lot of targets that I shouldn't. I repeated the process several times with both barrels shooting singles and 5 shot groups. I also shot my K-80 at the same time to make sure that it wasn't me but the K-80 patterned like it always has which is 60/40. I did raise the comb again to get it close to 50/50, however, when I got the gun back from Kolar last December, it was 50/50 with the comb raised 1/8 inch and now it is at 3/8 inch to get a similar pattern. So, does the barrel have a memory where it wants to go back to its original configuration even after replacing the front hanger and the middle shim, I don't know but I will contact Kolar about it this week. I know that there have been different opinions on this site as to whether you can change the POI on the top barrel by changing the hanger and shims.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,823 Posts
I really think most of your issue is going from a heavy barreled ramp rib gun to a light barrel flat rib gun. I suspect you developed a subconscious float allowance with the k80 and are still applying it with the kolar.
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top