[Rocky White]

I have spent all of this year trying to get my Kolar to shoot well for me but it just hasn't worked out. I have shot around 7,000 rounds through it this year and I probably should have given up on the gun 4,000 rounds ago but I am not a quitter and apparently not real smart. I really like the gun but in over twenty years of shooting sporting clays competitively I have never shot nearly as poorly as I shoot with the Kolar. Let me repeat that I really like the gun, it is beautiful, it moves as smooth as butter, it is heavy but feels light in the hands, the trigger is one of the best, it feels good in the hands even when you miss a target, it is all you could hope for in a high quality high dollar shotgun. The Kolar is certainly on par with the Krieghoff and Perazzi and maybe better in some areas. Sure, part of the problem is me but I really can not explain the other part but there is something that keeps me from scoring well with the gun. I am going to make one more, last time, shooting the pattern board this week but unless a big light comes on I am going back to my Krieghoff. I am not blaming the gun, it is just a me/gun not bonding thing. I will probably keep working with it in the background but it is not going to be my main gun moving forward.

 

[Rocky White]

I switched from k80 to Kolar in october2021 after shooting the K80 for 27 years. Took about a month to come up to speed. First month was trial and error adding forward and back. Found the Kolar needed some weight under the forearm to start to feel more like the k80. Both guns are around 10.5#s

We are in similar positions with regards to the Krieghoff, I started shooting mine in 1998. I bought the Kolar about a year ago but it just hasn't worked out for me. For a couple years I switched from my K-80 to a Beretta 391 when they were the rage and had no problems switching back and forth between the two. One thing they both have in common though is that they both have custom made stocks. The Kolar has a factory stock.

 

[Rocky White]

I understand that. My K-80 won't shoot steel based hulls in the upper barrel, they stick big time. Also, some steel based rounds stick in the lower barrel but it depends on the maker, Now that you mentioned it maybe I need a new barrel for my K-80 because I am sitting on about 8,000 rounds of steel based shells. Life is hard!

 

[Rocky White]

I am curious, why not a custom stock for the Kolar? That seems like the missing link in my mind...Good luck with your process.

Your point is well taken and getting a custom stock has crossed my mind but it would add an additional $7,000 to $8,000 to the total cost of the gun and it would be an additional loss if I decide to sell the gun since you really can't get your money back on a custom stock. Also, as I might have mentioned previously the gun feels really good, as good as my custom stocked K-80.

 

[Rocky White]

I've followed your threads on your Kolar problem. I couldn't remember whether you had patterned the gun or not, but I think it is a good idea to see the results you get this week on the pattern board. I got my Kolar in February and just assumed that the barrel regulation would be perfect......after all I was told that it was patterned at the factory. For the first month I was very frustrated, because of the number of missed targets with the gun. When I finally took it to the pattern board and shot the gun off a lead sled, I found that the top barrel was shooting 10" low at 40 yards. I sent the barrel back to Kolar and they changed out both hangers to get the barrels shooting pretty close to the same POI. I've spent the months since tweaking the pattern by changing the front hanger until I'm really close to having it shoot where I'm looking. I'm hoping your problem will be something like this that can be fixed fairly easily. GOOD LUCK!

I have patterned the gun numerous times. This has actually been going on for a year. All of this is in a previous Kolar post but I wound up sending the gun back to Kolar last December because the gun shot low. It is a flat rib intended to shoot 50/50 and Kolar did fix the barrel, they are an excellent company to work with and they gun is as good as any it just isn't working for me and I am sure that I have mentally lost confidence in the gun.

 

[Rocky White]

If the lower barrel shoots way low, I agree with working on the hangers. If both barrels shoot way low, I would work on the comb height instead.

I would also clean the chokes thoroughly. They build up plastic from the wads, and what's labelled IC might shoot like a Mod or Light Full if its caked up. To tell, unscrew each one, and look in with an LED flashlight. You can also tell by touching inside with a finger-tip, it should be glass-smooth when clean. Just looking inside without a flashlight is a good way to fool yourself.

I have also seen used Kolars (did you get yours new or used?) come with the wrong chokes. If a choke says MOD, but was intended for a .740 bore, and you have a .750 bore, it will shoot like a FULL choke or whatever. To diagnose this, disciplined patterning (as below) can give good clues, but to really tell, you'd need a bore gauge (or confirmation of the barrel's bore from Kolar or a good gunsmith) and an inside caliper.

It's hard to help without seeing your patterns. At one range our "patterning board" is a grease board, with maybe a million shots on it to date, so it's very difficult to get a clear pattern & firm conclusion. I made my own pattern target stand out of 2x2s and PVC pipe, and I staple on the NRA 30" shotgun patterning targets. Then you know what you're really getting. Pace it off as accurately as you can. Pattern is highly dependent on distance. Like Ernest said, use a lead sled, or some similar solid rest for patterning, not freehand.

While you're at it, I would definitely do a couple of patterns with your Krieghoff. We know you like the results with it, so if the Kolar differs, then you'll have isolated the problem(s).

Thanks for your thoughtful post. If you go back to the list of Kolar posts, about 2/3rds the way to the bottom I have a post called Kolar Flat Rib Sporting. On page 2 I have a post that has pictures of my Kolar, Krieghoff and Beretta 682 on the pattern board. I could have also added both of my Beretta 391's and they would shoot the same as the K-90 and Beretta. My K-80 and main 391 both have custom stocks but my 682 and other 391 were set up by Bob James who made my custom stocks so it really is not fair to the Kolar. The Kolar was brand new (not purchased used) when I shot these. I sent the Kolar back to the factory and they changed out the hangers and whatever and sent it back shooting 50/50. I have raised the comb some trying to get it to shoot a little closer to 60/40. I have shot about 150,000 rounds 60/40 so changing to 50/50 has been really difficult for me. I shoot it better than in the beginning but my average in competition is over 17 targets per 100 less than when I was shooting my K-80 and I have put about 7,000 - 9,000 rounds through the Kolar.

 

[Rocky White]

Wow. I am a huge Kolar fan, but being down 17 targets per 100 is a lot, probably too much.
I don't know what else to suggest, assuming you are cleaning the chokes about the same on all the guns.
I never liked the flat-rib myself, I prefer the old step-rib, or the newer "sporter", aka ramp-taper. I have a flat-rib barrel that received an add-a-rib or whatever, it now has the same geometry as the other two I just mentioned (rib is about 5/16" high at the peak above the chambers, then slopes downward to the muzzle). It shoots fine for me, and matches the other (step-rib) barrel (in terms of exact elevation) that I use on that same receiver.
Are your Krieghoff and Beretta also flat-ribs??

My K-80 is their basic Sporting model, if you can call any of their guns basic, it is the original sporting in Super Scroll with a gold target super scroll toplatch, a custom stock and a fixed choke 32" barrel that Briley turned into a thin wall. The Beretta and 391 are flat ribs. However, I do really like everything about the Kolar which is a Regal with a leather recoil pad and a spare trigger, upgraded Turkish Walnut, basically everything you could wish for in a shotgun. Enough engraving and stylish wood to set it above most but not so much that you need to worry about it.
Ok, the whole story, almost, is that I was off of shooting and competing pretty much since 2015, maybe shot a couple thousand rounds in 2016 to July/August of last year. Still ,I put about 8-10k rounds shooting sporting with about 2K in tournaments since buying the Kolar last year. My current stock guys are S & S in Montana. John Raymond who made my last two stocks said that the Kolar stock was different than my actual stock measurements of the custom stocked K-80 they made for me and that I could probably shoot it well but not to where I shot the K-80. I was actually looking for a Perazzi when I saw the Kolar's on Robert Paxton's website and how can you not fall in love with the upgraded wood. Anyway Robert sent me a ramped rib to try which I liked and I wound up buying the Kolar, in part because I think it is a hassle figuring out what you want in a P-Gun. I wanted the flat rib for two reasons, first I liked the theory of shooting 50/50 with the bird off of the bead vs my K-80 and others I have that are 60/40 in which I float most targets. Secondly, I am left eye dominant and shoot right handed both eyes open and felt the low rib would propose less distractions for my left eye to focus on. I saw this when shooting a friend's high rib gun some years ago when they were the rage and my left eye took over everything. So, I felt a flat rib would have the opposite effect giving less for my left eye to focus on. This proved out to be true. Because of my situation I always shoot low gun so my left eye has less of a chance to take over. I also turn my head severely to the left when having a left to right crosser for the same reason. Well, that is a lot to digest. I will add that I took lessons from Roger Silcox out of England years ago and he told me it was impossible to do what I was doing at a tournament that I took second place and actually was in first until he made me doubt myself, not his fault, I let him do it. I also took a one day private lesson from Andy Duffy who said my left eye was not in play as the master eye. Lastly I spent a couple days privately with Anthony Materese which he never said anything about the way I shot. That's about it, kinda complicated at first but after about 20 years it is no longer a big deal. I have shot some of the best scores ever shooting both eyes open and once upon a time I tried shooting left handed during the off season and it worked pretty well but sometimes my brain would not pull the trigger and sometimes I would crawl over the stock and lastly I would shoot some targets left handed and the ones that were not set up for lefty's I would shoot right handed, it freaked people out. Just a note, I have shot 70,000+ in tournaments and at least that in practice. I have also been doing this since 1997 so I am not a novice at this, but I don't know everything and listen to overs. At this point I am likely going back to the K-80 for a couple months while seeing if I can make the Kolar work. Last year Kolar offered to send me a ramped rib N/C but I wasn't ready. I might be ready now but first I will look at comb adjustment and think if I need a custom stock. I do really like the flat rib but I am no longer going down in flames over it.

 

[Rocky White]

Also, time is not on my side if you know what I mean. I have 5 maybe 10 years left until my time is up so I don't want to waste time trying to get it right,

 

[Rocky White]

I went back to the pattern board yesterday and the gun is shooting low once again. Not as bad as it was originally but with a 20 inch diameter pattern the spread is 8 inches above and 12 inches below the mark and with that the core is about 2 inches low. I can break a lot of targets the way the gun is but I also miss a lot of targets that I shouldn't. I repeated the process several times with both barrels shooting singles and 5 shot groups. I also shot my K-80 at the same time to make sure that it wasn't me but the K-80 patterned like it always has which is 60/40. I did raise the comb again to get it close to 50/50, however, when I got the gun back from Kolar last December, it was 50/50 with the comb raised 1/8 inch and now it is at 3/8 inch to get a similar pattern. So, does the barrel have a memory where it wants to go back to its original configuration even after replacing the front hanger and the middle shim, I don't know but I will contact Kolar about it this week. I know that there have been different opinions on this site as to whether you can change the POI on the top barrel by changing the hanger and shims.

 

[Rocky White]

I really think most of your issue is going from a heavy barreled ramp rib gun to a light barrel flat rib gun. I suspect you developed a subconscious float allowance with the k80 and are still applying it with the kolar.

Subconsciously floating, sure, I have a note on my cart to not float the target and sometimes I walk away from a station after still floating the target. My big thing in the last 8,000 targets or so is don't float the target but it only works sometimes at this point and I don't want to shoot another 10,000 getting my brain to change, maybe. As far as weight not so much, my K-80 barrel is a 32" that was fixed choke and was back bored to .732 with Briley thin wall chokes. The K-80 barrel is about 3 oz heavier in weighing the barrels, chambers and chokes included, which means something but the gun is by no means barrel heavy. The Kolar is also 32".

 

[Rocky White]

Yes I have seen a case of a minor amount of "memory" on a Kolar O/U barrel, but it's rare, and only happens if there is stress in there due to unusual sizes of spacer & hanger selected, then shooting it a lot so it gets hot can make it "return" some to where it was.

Anyway I agree with BirdHunter. And so I would raise the Kolar comb to get the same 60/40 as the K-80.

I feel both of you are correct and I am not questioning your thoughtfulness that you are showing and just expressing what I am dealing with. The problem I have with raising the comb more is that it is uncomfortable to mount as additional comb offset to the right is also in play. It is also a looking down at the rib issue which is a problem for me. It also means removing the little screws in the comb because they are not that long which is no big deal but I think if the comb is taller than the screws that it is out of spec. The comb would need to be 1/2" to 5/8" above the base. This is where I was originally when I sent it back to Kolar. There is the option of getting the Kolar ramped rib barrel but I was looking for a flat rib when I bought the Kolar for eye dominance issues which is another subject altogether. Probably the best bet is a custom stock but that is throwing another $7k+ into the gun. I think I would rather buy a Cole headed stock Perazzi than doing a custom stock on the Kolar. In reality this is not really fair to the Kolar as my K-80 has a custom stock on it made by Bob James. My stock dimensions are not extreme but I am taller and wider that the average person that stocks are designed for which I believe is in the 5' 8-10" person.

 

[Rocky White]

Also, the K-80 weighs 8 1/2 pounds and the Kolar weighs just under 9 pounds.

 

[Rocky White]

When I bought the Kolar I was actually looking to buy a Perazzi. The reasoning for buying something new and not just continuing to shoot my K-80 which I have been shooting since 1998 was that I had life changes and I used to carry a back up gun which is no longer a possibility.

If you don't like right offset, just change it. Still need to hear about the balance. Don't underestimate the effect on swinging accurately to hit targets. A half a pound difference is not something you can casually switch back & forth and expect to hit similar scores.

Well, I was told by S & S guns that as you raise the comb you also have to move it to the right which is what I experienced in the beginning. So, I don't want to shoot similar scores, I want to shoot better scores. My best explanation on balance is that they both basically balance at the hinge pin. The Kolar is a little heavier in the hands and getting it to the shoulder than the Krieghoff but the Kolar moves a little faster than the Krieghoff as I am approaching the mount and establishing lead. I shoot low gun. Since 1997 I have gone from a Beretta 686 to a 425 Browning to a 682 Beretta Gold Sporting to a Krieghoff to a Beretta 391 and back to the Krieghoff and it only took about a thousand rounds each to accomplish the change. I am closing on ten thousand rounds with the Kolar. I could easily go back to the K-80 or move on to something else but I guess I am stubborn and don't want to give up. I also like the theory of shooting 50/50 but I probably need to gradually move down from 60/40 since I have shot a couple hundred thousand rounds at 60/40.

 

[Rocky White]

I had an ill-fated relationship with a Kolar. Went to WI got a fitting, picked my own wood and a custom stock made by them. Beautiful, well made outstanding gun. NEVER could shoot the damn thing! Shot it for a year exclusively just could never make it work for me. Went back to my DT-10 and eventually had a Perazzi made to my specs. Best decision I've made with guns. They are awesome guns. American made craftsmanship at it's finest but, not for everybody. Good luck in your venture, Steve

So I have the Kolar which feels really lively and I have a K-80 with thin walls and a back bored barrel at 8 1/2 pounds and it is pretty lively. I have held 4 Perazzi's that people I know have and all but one felt lifeless to me. I think that part of the reason I bought the Kolar is that there is only one gun with different ribs. What is the spec on your gun that makes you like it so much. I am in Spokane Washington so to handle any Perazzi's would be a plane ride to CA or MI.

 

[Rocky White]

I went back to the pattern board again yesterday. I still had some room to raise the comb a bit so I raised it up to it's tippy toes. The results were very good as it is shooting about 55/45 which will work well for me as I can now shoot it just like I shot my K-80. It was shooting a little to the right so I was able to bring the comb back I little bit towards center which was also good. I am not sure why except I have been losing weight so maybe my face isn't as fat, plus I was canting the stock a little which is more likely the issue. I shot the board at 30 yards with light full chokes and I shot it like I was shooting at a target. I am not one to put a shotgun on a bench rest because you don't shoot flying targets on a bench rest, that is for rifles. Also, the custom stock makers I have seen never bench rest a shotgun. Nothing against it I just don't do it. I also shot a round of sporting clays and it shot well. So I think it is good to go, I just have to regain confidence in the gun and see if I like the feel with the comb that high or if I want to get the barrels changed a little more if possible to get the comb lower.

 

[Rocky White]

What number hangar do you have on the gun?
If the number is higher the gun shoots lower. I have a kolar o/u barrel with a #2 hangar and it shoots 90/10. The one I have with a #8 shoots about flat.
It ma be something to ask kolar about?

I have a #6 hanger.

 

[Rocky White]

I shot the Kolar on Thursday, 10/20, and again on Sunday 10/23, with a total of about 350 - 400 rounds and the last adjustment brought the Kolar up to where my Krieghoff shoots. At this point it is great because I can shoot targets like I have for the last 25 years with my Krieghoff. I missed very few targets and the gun was shooting somewhere 55/45 and 60/40 and my K-80 is at 60/40. I still would like to shoot a 50/50 gun but I am thinking that I can work my way there instead of what I was trying to do which was to instantly to convert from 60/40 to 50/50. It doesn't seem like much but it is, At this point I want to shoot a number of tournaments the way the gun is now and hopefully shoot some good scores and then gradually start bringing the gun down to where it shoots 50/50 because that is where I feel the balance of leads and shooting lies. Last year I went into changing guns to the Kolar and shooting 50/50 instead of the 60/40 where my K-80 shot for years and years as well as my Beretta 682 and 391 shoot. So basically I have shot 60/40 forever. On top of that I was coming back from a layoff since 2015 plus I broke my back it the end of 2020 and was coming back from that in addition to changing the way I shoot because of back pain.

 

[Rocky White]

Rocky, you have a serious case of newgunitis. I think it’s leading to braininterruptis, which can in some cases lead to targetmissitis.😂

Yes, maybe and possibly. I bought my Krieghoff in 1998 and have been shooting it ever since except for a few years where I shot a 391. Last year I wanted a gun with a removable trigger so I started looking for a Perazzi but wound up with a new Kolar. Maybe my brain still wants a Perazzi.

 

[Rocky White]

👍🏻😂

I am starting to shoot the Kolar really well at this point. Now I need to decide on the engraving for a new Perazzi. Ha Ha.

 

[Rocky White]

In retrospect I should have taken the comb all the way up so the pattern was as high as possible and worked my way down to where I liked it instead of working my way up from the pattern being so low that I was having trouble hitting stuff to where it needed to be for my style of shooting. I think it would have been quicker and less frustrating.