I picked up 3 boxes of the Aquila mini 12 slugs at a gun show today (they sold out of the shot shells in under an hour). I gave one box to a local gun shop employee who is going to run them through various types of shotguns that he owns (Benelli, Remington, etc) I will run a box through my 1300 and post results from the both of us here for all of you. I sure hope they function well as it appears that I can stuff a bunch of these in my 1300!--Rob
Reduced Recoil Ammo, Anyone using it?
Hello everyone! Perhaps some of you can help me out.One of the biggest problems that I have run into when firing my pistol grip equipped 1300 Defender is the amount of recoil that it generates. I have tried several different loads and seem to be best off with a light target load.I Have just finished reading an article in a magazine called, "Special Weapons for law enforcement" about the new reduced recoil loads that are being offered by Remington, Winchester, and Federal. All three are offering various loads ranging from Buckshot to slugs.Their testing results seemed to be very positive.I have also read about a round referred to as a "Mini 12 shell " Being made by Aquila. I really like the idea behind the mini shell, as any encounters that I might have in my residence would be at very close range (10-15 feet). So I doubt that I would really need a high power round. I also understand that due to the shells smaller size, more rounds will fit in the Magazine. I also read that certain shotguns need modifications to reliable fire these shells, however the 1300 supposedly will fire them without any mods or problems.I am just curious to see if anyone here has used either of these rounds, and their opinions if they have. Thanks for your help--Rob
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I haven't heard much about the mini shells,but I have heard a lot of good things about Federal Tactical Low Recoil 00Buckshot. Accurate and reliable.Let me know how those mini shells work out "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective"--Ted Nugent
I've used the mini 12 slugs in an 870 and a SxS.They feed in my 870 but are "sticky". Which is strange as the 870 I have is well used and slick otherwise.Very accurate in the SxS.James
Well, bad news about the minis. They don't feed well at all in my 1300. I experianced several misfeeds (sticky describes them well) and several ejection problems. At this point I would not recommend them at all. They are a good idea but I'm not going to bet my life on them.Now on the other hand. I do highly recommend the Winchester, Super X, Low recoil, OO Buckshot shells. I shot them back to back with standard Buckshot loads and the reduction in recoil was VERY noticable. They functioned very well (No misfeeds) and seemed to still pack a very good punch. They are much more costly then standard shells however.The advantages of lower recoil should be obvious to everyone, IE: Less muzzle flip, Faster back on target times etc. They were primarily designed to accomedate the trend of current law officers being of a smaller builds then the officers of past generations.I find the lower recoil to be extremely benifitial when firing my pistol gripped 1300.I hope this is good info for some of you--Rob
G
Hello new to the site and was just browsing. I am an officer in Texas and know an officer who was involved in a shooting with his shotgun. We use Federal 00 buck 2 1/2" reduced recoil shells. Long story short there was a barricaded subject with two family members a hostages. The officer was on perimeter and saw through the kitchen window that the guy had one of the hostages at gunpoint. Feeling that the hostage's life was in immedate danger he took the shot. If I remember correctly only one or two pellets made it to him he was struck in the chest and shoulder and sprayed with glass. He locked himself in a bedroom and later shot himself. Later the shooting investigation found that all of the other pellets were sitting on the window sill. They lost all of thier energy going through the glass and the crap on the window ie. flower vase and I think a spraybottle of cleaner. Don't know much about penetration depths and energy displacment, just thought I would let you guys know and ask your opinion. He was No Billed by the grand jury and cleared by IA and the shooting investigation team.
Texas4040,
First, thank you very much for your insight. It's always welcome to hear from members of the law enforcement community.
I'm accually pretty suprised to hear that the pellets lost all velocity hitting the window, but it is also understandable. I'm no ballistics expert, but the physics of the situation make perfect sense. The pellets transferred their energy to the glass.
That brings up a good question. Is the reduced recoil worth the reduced velocity that also results.
Thanks for the info!
First, thank you very much for your insight. It's always welcome to hear from members of the law enforcement community.
I'm accually pretty suprised to hear that the pellets lost all velocity hitting the window, but it is also understandable. I'm no ballistics expert, but the physics of the situation make perfect sense. The pellets transferred their energy to the glass.
That brings up a good question. Is the reduced recoil worth the reduced velocity that also results.
Thanks for the info!
Glass is a surprisingly tough barrier for projectiles.... handgun and rifle bullets have been known to do all kinds of weird stuff after hitting it. Still, I'm surprised that it fared as badly as it did. I would have thought that all of the pellets would have at least penetrated. I'm not sure whether this is an indictment of the "lower recoil" (and like Guardian said, lower velocity) buckshot loads or just one of those freaky things that happens from time to time. Police Magazine (http://www.policemag.com) in their April, 2003 issue did a quick evaluation of various loads through various parts of cars. They used (regular) Winchester 00 Buck. In the article, they mentioned that they had heard that 00 Buck could not be counted on to reliably penetrate windshields. But firing from 7 yards they always got penetration. Many times, the rear window would be shattered by a pellet or two as well. However, as range increases, 00 Buck becomes much less effective. Obviously, window glass usually isn't laminated like a windshield and I don't know how close the officer was, but what I suspect is that distance + lower velocity + glass = oh s***.
I'll stick with my non-low-recoil buckshot, thank you very much...
I'll stick with my non-low-recoil buckshot, thank you very much...
G
After using a Winchester 1300 in a combat shotgun course I took, I also decided I needed to do something about the recoil. I came up with three things; two are cheap, and the third is (maybe) not too bad...
1) Put about a pound and a half of lead shot into a baggie and stuff it inside the stock as close to the receiver as you can get it. Tightly fill the rest of the empty part of the stock with pieces of scrap foam so the shot doesn't rattle around in there. This will bring the weight of the gun up to about 8 pounds, and helps a lot.
2) Put on a GOOD recoil pad. I used a Kick-Eez.
3) Get the barrel Vang comped. This cost about $230 when I had it done, but it makes a distinct difference in felt recoil.
1) Put about a pound and a half of lead shot into a baggie and stuff it inside the stock as close to the receiver as you can get it. Tightly fill the rest of the empty part of the stock with pieces of scrap foam so the shot doesn't rattle around in there. This will bring the weight of the gun up to about 8 pounds, and helps a lot.
2) Put on a GOOD recoil pad. I used a Kick-Eez.
3) Get the barrel Vang comped. This cost about $230 when I had it done, but it makes a distinct difference in felt recoil.
G
RE: Mini-Slugs, Aguila. Must agree w/ RobM & Trombone -
Have a 1300 Defender, brand New. The Mini's do not (REPEAT: NOT!) feed well. REEEAL pain to un-jam, too, when they slide-out 2 at a time & block/lock ur feedramp, tight! ...which seems to be almost every other shot. bad stove-piping, etc., etc. nice gimmick shell, but they jsut need to get their special mini-Shotgun to market for that shell to succeed, that I can see. Would NEVER risk my life with them! Disappointed that AQUILA's site is touting "Flawless operation" for the 1300 when its quite the opposite case.
I use Reduced Recoil 9-Pellet OOO-buck. My own testing tells me bet on them more so than even 00. MY experience also consistent with what I'm hearing about 00-Buck Reduced-recoil performance.
Have a 1300 Defender, brand New. The Mini's do not (REPEAT: NOT!) feed well. REEEAL pain to un-jam, too, when they slide-out 2 at a time & block/lock ur feedramp, tight! ...which seems to be almost every other shot. bad stove-piping, etc., etc. nice gimmick shell, but they jsut need to get their special mini-Shotgun to market for that shell to succeed, that I can see. Would NEVER risk my life with them! Disappointed that AQUILA's site is touting "Flawless operation" for the 1300 when its quite the opposite case.
I use Reduced Recoil 9-Pellet OOO-buck. My own testing tells me bet on them more so than even 00. MY experience also consistent with what I'm hearing about 00-Buck Reduced-recoil performance.
I spent Thurday afternoon putting 50 rounds of Federal LE-133-00 Reduced Recoil and 50 round of LE127-00 High Velocity 00 Buck through a Benelli M3.
Both produced really good tight patterns at 40 yards and even out to 50 yards, and I can tell you one thing for sure - I would far rather shoot the reduced recoil loads!
Both produced really good tight patterns at 40 yards and even out to 50 yards, and I can tell you one thing for sure - I would far rather shoot the reduced recoil loads!
If they would come out with a Shotgun made for the mini-shells I would buy one. For Home defense It would be an ideal round with a high capacity of shells at the ready.
I don't shoot reduced recoils shells in my scatterguns. Kind of like shooting 44 specials in a 44 mag, defeats the purpose. I have played with them and don't see/feel enough difference in them to worry about it. In a real world shooting you will never feel the recoil.
How are holding the pistol grip gun? From the hip I bet.
It seems like everyone want to fire from the hip were you have the least amount of control and strength. Do you shoot a .44MAG or any other heavy hand gun from the hip?? then why a 12ga shotgun that will have more than double the amount of recoil?
The proper technique for such a weapon is...
Shoot from eye level, sight down the barrel, weapon fully extended at arms length. With strong hand (trigger hand) PULL back, with support hand PUSH forward. Yes, like you are trying to stretch the gun. You are stronger in this position. Your chest and shoulder muscles can control the recoil much better than your arms can firing from the hip.
How are holding the pistol grip gun? From the hip I bet.
It seems like everyone want to fire from the hip were you have the least amount of control and strength. Do you shoot a .44MAG or any other heavy hand gun from the hip?? then why a 12ga shotgun that will have more than double the amount of recoil?
The proper technique for such a weapon is...
Shoot from eye level, sight down the barrel, weapon fully extended at arms length. With strong hand (trigger hand) PULL back, with support hand PUSH forward. Yes, like you are trying to stretch the gun. You are stronger in this position. Your chest and shoulder muscles can control the recoil much better than your arms can firing from the hip.
I ONLY shoot Federal Low Recoil 4 Buck and Low Recoil Slugs.
There's a perception that these "LE" loads give you more control thus allowing you to realign the sights on target faster.
Tought it best to get every advantage I can.. :wink:
There's a perception that these "LE" loads give you more control thus allowing you to realign the sights on target faster.
Tought it best to get every advantage I can.. :wink:
Banshee, (and anyone else with short barreled shotguns) have you tried the reduced recoil stuff in your shorties? If so, how did they work? Also, (not that it would be necessary - just curious) does any body make reduced recoil in 20 gage?
{CR8 ^77
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blue moonshine pics
{CR8 ^77
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blue moonshine pics
I have tried them in some of mine, couldn't tell much, if at all in differance, still heavy.Chance said:Banshee, (and anyone else with short barreled shotguns) have you tried the reduced recoil stuff in your shorties? If so, how did they work? Also, (not that it would be necessary - just curious) does any body make reduced recoil in 20 gage?
{CR8 ^77
Thanks Banshee! That's kind of what I figured. The short barrel is going to push back, no matter what you feed it, and the shorter the barrel, the more it will push! :lol: Any of your shorties have the barrel ported? And if so, how did that work out for you? Did it noticeably reduce the felt recoil? I was also thinking about having the barrel back bored - do you think that would be worth while, as far as keeping the grouping of the pellets tighter?
-Andy {CR8 ^77
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Honda RC212V
-Andy {CR8 ^77
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Honda RC212V
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