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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm using Winchester AA HS hulls, #7 steel shot, cheddite 209 primers, hodgdon long shot powder and I'm now sure which wads to order with this being what I have for reloading. I've seen Ballistics Products Inc. Has there MG42 wad was recommended to me by the sales person but I wanted to ask here other people that are in the field using these rounds.... the stuff I listed I have now, and I'm just trying to make sure I'm safe and i dont hurt my wing master, hopefully you all can help thanks ahead of time.
 

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The most reasonable and most common advice you will hear is this:

Stick to a published load directly from a powder manufacturer and you will be fine. Hodgdon recently released a great deal of data using the cheddite primers. Make sure the load you’re planning on making uses their data.

Make certain to verify the drop weights of both the powder and shot charges. If you’re uncomfortable initially, use a load that is at the lower end of the pressure ratings for the components you have.
 

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I would not use steel unless there was absolutely no other choice but if I did it would be #6 to try to avoid biting a pellet and cracking a tooth. Larger pellets tend to pass completely thru and if they don't they are easier to find.
 

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What’s is the choke of your Wingmaster? Since you are using steel wads and small shot I probably wouldn’t worry about it, but there is always the chance that you could damage the forcing cone (ask me how I know).
 

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Most common source of info for that BP steel-capable wad will be BP themselves. They have several booklets. Might call that salesman you talked with and find out which one is best for upland bird steel shot data, and to make sure that the MG42 wad has several good loads in it.

I don't have many of their booklets, or I'd look up that info.

good luck, garrisonjoe
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I would not use steel unless there was absolutely no other choice but if I did it would be #6 to try to avoid biting a pellet and cracking a tooth. Larger pellets tend to pass completely thru and if they don't they are easier to find.
I'm in California so for target I can shoot lead but for hunting and harvesting an animal they require non lead inside the rounds because of the non lead or other toxic loads..... I see steel shot, bismuth and others but steel seems the closest to lead... I just called BP and they dont have a recipe for me since I dont have winchester 209 primers just the cheddite
 

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Bismuth is closer to lead than steel is, but it costs a lot more. Considering the cost of a crown or implant, and no more rounds than I would shoot at doves, I would buy bismuth, Much easier to load in the reloader, too.

I'm sure there are recipes out there for cheddites. Since I am always loading pretty mild loads I never worried much about primer type. Any would work for me. YMMV
 

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Here's a previous post of mine about dove shooting with steel factory loads. I'm sure you can locate steel reload data, but it may be difficult to find components. You may end up having to purchase a few boxes of factory steel loads.

Of course, your load and choke selection will depend on the type of dove hunting/shooting you are doing and the normal distance of your shots.

That said, I've shot a good many doves with 20-gauge ¾-ounce of No. 7 steel. The No. 7 steel pellet helps to maintain good pattern density from the 3/4-ounce payload, and they seem to be able to put dove down within reasonable ranges (<40 yards), if you can put the pattern on them!

However, if I had to regularly take 40 yard or longer shots, I would probably switch to a 12-gauge 1-ounce load of No. 6 steel, to provide a little more down-range pellet energy and tighten my chokes to help maintain good pattern density.

Here are some of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of the kind of performance you might get from 20- and 12-gauge No. 7 and No. 6 steel loads.

Pattern results from 20- and 12-gauge Browning Citoris with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

20 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
3/4 oz #7 steel (327 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 221 (68%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 242 (74%)
30 YARDS – M / pattern 272 (83%)

40 YARDS – IM / pattern 197 (60%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 213 (65%)

20 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 173 (75%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 181 (78%)
30 YARDS – M / pattern 204 (88%)

40 YARDS – IM / pattern 155 (67%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 165 (71%)

12 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
1 oz #7 steel (437 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 319 (73%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 363 (83%)

40 YARDS – LM / pattern 278 (64%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 286 (65%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 300 (69%)
40 YARDS – LF / pattern 306 (70%)

12 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
1 oz #6 steel (306 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 234 (76%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 261 (85%)

40 YARDS – LM / pattern 220 (72%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 222 (73%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 227 (74%)
40 YARDS – LF / pattern 229 (75%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 234 (76%)

50 YARDS – F / pattern 162 (53%)

Here’s a link to study done in Texas comparing lead and steel loads at taking dove.


Good luck!
 

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I'm in California so for target I can shoot lead but for hunting and harvesting an animal they require non lead inside the rounds because of the non lead or other toxic loads..... I see steel shot, bismuth and others but steel seems the closest to lead... I just called BP and they dont have a recipe for me since I dont have winchester 209 primers just the cheddite
Steel seems closest to lead for price, but not for ballistics. Being in CA you probably can't buy ammo online?

Winchester Super-X Game & Target Xpert High Velocity 12ga 2-3/4" 1oz. 1325FPS #7 250rd Case #WE12GT7 - Dunns Sporting Goods
 

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Most any Straight-wall hull will do for loading Steel shot ! I like Fiocchi's and Rio's as well as Cheddites and Federals .
So much is being said about Wads , with some research , there're other wads that cost less than expensive STEEL
SHOT WADS , that work just fine . Shooting Steel shot up to size #5's in my fixed choked guns hasn't shown any
barrel problems but my best patterns have come from constrictions Mod (.020 ) or more open . One of my 26" IC
barrels , throws a wonderful 1 oz load of #6's out to 35 yds , whereas , my .020 barrel pattern is plenty dense for
Dove size birds out to 40 plus ! I have found through research , there're other powders that work well for steel so ,
beware of Green Dot and Red Dot as steel loads up to 1300 fps will kill upland birds and clay targets just fine !
Guns that have been built for shooting steel shot are more forgiving ( pellet size wise ) than older barrels but
do be fooled , understanding what payload is best and patterning shows you how !
 

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Here's a previous post of mine about dove shooting with steel factory loads. I'm sure you can locate steel reload data, but it may be difficult to find components. You may end up having to purchase a few boxes of factory steel loads.

Of course, your load and choke selection will depend on the type of dove hunting/shooting you are doing and the normal distance of your shots.

That said, I've shot a good many doves with 20-gauge ¾-ounce of No. 7 steel. The No. 7 steel pellet helps to maintain good pattern density from the 3/4-ounce payload, and they seem to be able to put dove down within reasonable ranges (<40 yards), if you can put the pattern on them!

However, if I had to regularly take 40 yard or longer shots, I would probably switch to a 12-gauge 1-ounce load of No. 6 steel, to provide a little more down-range pellet energy and tighten my chokes to help maintain good pattern density.

Here are some of my pattern numbers to give you an idea of the kind of performance you might get from 20- and 12-gauge No. 7 and No. 6 steel loads.

Pattern results from 20- and 12-gauge Browning Citoris with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

20 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
3/4 oz #7 steel (327 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 221 (68%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 242 (74%)
30 YARDS – M / pattern 272 (83%)

40 YARDS – IM / pattern 197 (60%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 213 (65%)

20 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
3/4 oz #6 steel (231 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 173 (75%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 181 (78%)
30 YARDS – M / pattern 204 (88%)

40 YARDS – IM / pattern 155 (67%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 165 (71%)

12 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
1 oz #7 steel (437 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 319 (73%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 363 (83%)

40 YARDS – LM / pattern 278 (64%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 286 (65%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 300 (69%)
40 YARDS – LF / pattern 306 (70%)

12 GA 2 ¾” WINCHESTER XPERT STEEL LOAD
1 oz #6 steel (306 pellets) @ 1325 fps

30 YARDS – SK / pattern 234 (76%)
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 261 (85%)

40 YARDS – LM / pattern 220 (72%)
40 YARDS – M / pattern 222 (73%)
40 YARDS – IM / pattern 227 (74%)
40 YARDS – LF / pattern 229 (75%)
40 YARDS – F / pattern 234 (76%)

50 YARDS – F / pattern 162 (53%)

Here’s a link to study done in Texas comparing lead and steel loads at taking dove.


Good luck!
Good article, JH. Thanks.
 

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I always had trouble with steel 7's for doves, lots of cripples and poofs that kept flying so I switched to 6's about 4 years ago which solved the problem. Then last year I bought some 20ga federal 3/4oz 7's at 1425fps and man did they smoke doves. That extra 100fps really made a difference. Even shot some teal and pigeons with them without any cripples. They worked so good that I now have 100% confidence in them and do not even plan to try 6's this season. I'm taking complete 100% dead birds out to 40 yards with these fast 7's, and never had any shot in the meat. I only got my hands on one case, but was able to put down 145 doves, 2 limits of teal, and a handful of pigeons with them and still have a box left over.


So find a recipe at or over 1400 for the 7's IMO. My buddy still shoots 6's in 12ga and does very well also, he shoots the federal upland steel 6s at 1400.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I always had trouble with steel 7's for doves, lots of cripples and poofs that kept flying so I switched to 6's about 4 years ago which solved the problem. Then last year I bought some 20ga federal 3/4oz 7's at 1425fps and man did they smoke doves. That extra 100fps really made a difference. Even shot some teal and pigeons with them without any cripples. They worked so good that I now have 100% confidence in them and do not even plan to try 6's this season. I'm taking complete 100% dead birds out to 40 yards with these fast 7's, and never had any shot in the meat. I only got my hands on one case, but was able to put down 145 doves, 2 limits of teal, and a handful of pigeons with them and still have a box left over.


So find a recipe at or over 1400 for the 7's IMO. My buddy still shoots 6's in 12ga and does very well also, he shoots the federal upland steel 6s at 1400.
Winchester AA HS hulls, cheddite primers, Hodgdon long shot, #7 steel shot, BP MG42 wad it's the same recipe on the long shot bottle just changed the primer and wad but only did so while I had BP on the phone. That recipe is supposed to put out 1440fps
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That's way to fast for such light-weight pellets , over shot cards blow-up patterns like to much velocity !
Shot sizes like that do better around 1300 fps as , pellets sizes larger , are for distance shooting !
Well this is what I'm working with in California. I cant get anything just at one place so I have leaned on Ballistics Products and Eric there is the guy I've been making sure I'm ok with these loads I will be taking them to the range and trap shoot Clay's.... cant get a lot of supplies unless I want to spend over $150 of products from a company before they will even ship to me and I have to pay hazmat and all those fees. Just on hulls and shot my shipping was basically $23 but honestly I'll be ordering status of steel and some other manuals and data logs. I'm just getting back in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well this is what I'm working with in California. I cant get anything just at one place so I have leaned on Ballistics Products and Eric there is the guy I've been making sure I'm ok with these loads I will be taking them to the range and trap shoot Clay's.... cant get a lot of supplies unless I want to spend over $150 of products from a company before they will even ship to me and I have to pay hazmat and all those fees. Just on hulls and shot my shipping was basically $23 but honestly I'll be ordering status of steel and some other manuals and data logs. I'm just getting back in.
Also, I have enough rounds of non toxic rounds for this season, I enough sport shooting as well that's why I went to reload all
 

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I will offer you a little advise as I have loaded plenty of steel shot for waterfowl and upland .
1 oz of small steel shot is all you need for most upland birds and as far as velocity , Like I Said ,
1300/1350 is plenty good ., if , you want more distance in you loads go with #6's (290 pellets) .
Just adjust your patterns with choke tubes . I will agree # 7's will kill Doves (430 pellets) but
your shooting success will be inside of 35 yards . Those factory loads (1 1/8 oz) goes to show
how out of touch , with loads we don't need , plus the recoil limits how much shooting you
can handle ! anyway , just saying it's your dime
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will offer you a little advise as I have loaded plenty of steel shot for waterfowl and upland .
1 oz of small steel shot is all you need for most upland birds and as far as velocity , Like I Said ,
1300/1350 is plenty good ., if , you want more distance in you loads go with #6's (290 pellets) .
Just adjust your patterns with choke tubes . I will agree # 7's will kill Doves (430 pellets) but
your shooting success will be inside of 35 yards . Those factory loads (1 1/8 oz) goes to show
how out of touch , with loads we don't need , plus the recoil limits how much shooting you
can handle ! anyway , just saying it's your dime
I'm trying to learn what the best recipe is so I did go ahead and get some #6 steel shot when I was ordering my wads. I'm trying to spend as less money as possible for decent loads. If you're willing to talk with me and help me out a bit it would be greatly appreciated, i got back to hunting after the laws in California changed. So I'm off on all of this and reading when I have the chance and I plan on buying a book or manual on steel loads as well
 
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