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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Friends All.......Recently, in an emaill, I had a gentleman (in a very loose sense of the word) from the North, take me to task over a statement I had made......."With the new high capacity shotshells, with the solid low basewads, it was quite easy to duplicate most early 3" loads in the new 2/34" hulls"
Now Friends, that is a fact. Allowable chamber pressure is based on the simple relationship of powder (pressure and burnrate), weight of the shot and wads, applied to the area of the bore!
In the early shotshells, after brass hulls, the base wad was spun in strips of paper, with the head (rim) crimped onto the tube and bottom of this spun in base wad. At best, it was a weak setup and had to be thick. Of course, this took up space. When the market wanted a larger volume of shot (the true meaning of magnum) there just was not enough space in the 12 ga. 2 3/4" hull to get it all in.......so, the introduction of the 3" with more capacity. They both had the same basic wad stack needed to seal in pressure.
Now.....with the introduction of these new low base wad, high capacity hulls.....the entire situation changed for the reloader. Now he had enough space to load the larger shot volumes. In todays hulls (I use Fiocchi and Activ) the shot volume in the 2 3/4" hull can load up to 1 5/8 oz very easy! We now have over powder wads (X12X, PGS, etc) that sealed much better than the old nito and take up about the same space. We have re-invented the filler wads with new materials that are much lighter than the old hard waxed ones. We now have excellent shotcups. We now know that a rolled crimp does not blow the patterns and it gives quite a bit more space than a folded crimp.
So.....The careful reloader can make up many combonations with the new 2 3/4" hulls, both in 12 & 20 ga's. I have 20 ga 2 3/4" loads that push 1 1/4 oz of shot (which I feel is max weight in 20) well within the pressue levels set for the gauge. I use for these loads the Fiocchi or Activ hulls with a rolled crimp, lightweight filler wads, and shotcups.
We will be discussing these specialized loads in the future, but if you are interested now....please contact me.
Best Regards, James
 

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Nothing wrong with being from the north, we did win the war y'know. (wink wink nudge nudge) BTW with these new fangled bits and pieces how much steel can one put into a 16g hull?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well Now.......The one thing that has always been a puzzle to me about that war......was why it took a population of 23 million people almost 5 years to stop a population of 9 million?
Now that we are past that......16 ga. with the new hulls and steel. Since weight is weight, it appears a place to start would work around 1 1/8 oz of shot. One of the problems I see is there are no good plastic 16 ga wads that I know of the would hold that much steel? .....JCG
 

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Good comeback. It took us so long because we were busy being modern. What kind of velocity would you estimate is possible for 1 1/8 in a 16g hull, I can't find any table that lists dram equivalents for 16g.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It would be hard to estimate....a little less than the same in 12 ga
due to the smaller area of the bore and staying within pressure limits.....also, close to the velocity of the 1 1/8 lead load. As I said, the real problem would be a wad that held all the steel inside?
I just looked through Ballistic Products Catalog and they have no 16 ga wad that would hold that volume of steel.
It could be done, if there was a wad, but extreme care would have to be used developing it. BP does have hulls that would hold it all........Best Regards, James
 

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I'll leave it to the experts.
 

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early 12 ga. 3" shells were all lead, and the poster is right. one can load 1 5/8 oz in a federal hull at around 1160 fps. that is the early 3" load. one can load 1 1/8 oz in a std 20 ga., the same as the early 3" 20. i have been shooting since the 1950's, so i assume you mean early loads. that's all right, you yankee bastar$%. this time we will stomp a mudhole in you and walk it dry! whoops, my political correctness teacher just fainted again.
 

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I've got one rat's *** right here! :wink:

What am I bid??

Who'll give a dollar? A dollar anywhere? Anywhere a dollar??

Do I hear six bits??

Hmm, And I thought I was the only person who knew what a rat's *** was? :shock:

BP
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK Team.......It's fine to do a little ribbing, but let's not get wrapped up in it. Having worked with the gun companies all over the country, I found there are deep sectional feelings that are best left alone. It was not the war itself that bitterness came from, but rather reconstruction. Maybe we are a little touchy down South, but we also get a lot of Flak! Maybe we should just let it pass and talk about shotshells.........Best Regards, James
 

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Lex Talio said:
OK Team.......It's fine to do a little ribbing, but let's not get wrapped up in it. Having worked with the gun companies all over the country, I found there are deep sectional feelings that are best left alone. It was not the war itself that bitterness came from, but rather reconstruction. Maybe we are a little touchy down South, but we also get a lot of Flak! Maybe we should just let it pass and talk about shotshells.........Best Regards, James
AMEN!
 
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