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Is it possible to reload shells with blackpowder and fire them through a regular 12 ga pump using a regular primer? Yes, I realize how dirty this would be. If it's possible I just want to try it for fun. Has anyone ever done it?Nate :x
 

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People do reload shotshells with black powder for "cowboy action shooting"I found this text on the net, it was about brass shotshells, but is relevant to plastic ones as well--Now, on to loading! Basically, at this point you can use almost any load that is suitable for plastic or paper hulls, but you don't have to worry about exact combinations because you don't need an exact column height in order to get a good crimp like you do with plastic hulls. I started out using the exact same load I used in AA or STS hulls, with the addition of a glued-in overshot card. That is, about 65-70 grains of Goex FFg (Lee 4.3cc dipper), then a red Winchester plastic wad, then 1 oz. of 7 ½ shot, then the overshot card. I cut my first overshot carts out of styrofoam meat trays using an empty brass hull for a cutter, but now I use Circle Fly cards. I have also started using a 1/8" overpowder card between the powder and the plastic wad. It may help cut down on the plastic fouling a bit, but it really isn't necessary. You can use a little more powder and/or shot if you want more knockdown power, or use a little less for lowered recoil. Smaller shot size may help if you are trying to hit clay birds.I use the Lee press for compressing the load and dropping the shot, but not for dropping the powder. BP should not be used in plastic powder hoppers due to static, so most of us use Lee dippers or any other dipper that will hold the correct amount of powder. If you don't have a loading press, you can use a wooden dowel to compress the wad over the powder (the amount of compression is not critical, just "lean into it" - people with MEC presses say they use 30 lbs. or so of compression). Then you can use the same dipper to load your shot. Conventional BP shotshell wisdom recommends using the same volume of shot and powder. If you don't have the Lee dippers, 65 grains of FFg BP by volume is just about the same as 65 grains of weight on your scale, so if you create a dipper that throws 65 grains by weight, you will be close enough. ----------------So, with that in mind, I would try it. imagine the laughs (or complaints) you'd get shooting a round of trap with black powder shotshells :)Id mention that you must clean your gun's bore with soap and water, and thouroughly oil it the same day after firing black powder. It leaves a corrosive residue that will ruin your barrel if not removed promptly
 

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I don't know about that. I wouldn't do it. Smokless powder is designed to create a lot of pressure in a short period of time. If you replaced smokeless powder with black powder, I don't think enough pressure will build behind the wad quickly enough to launch it out of the hull. A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.
 

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I tried it. It works just fine. Made alot of smoke and a different sound when fired.(more of a boom instead of a bang) Seemed to pattern ok too. Fired it in an old SxS. I used the same Volume of blackpowder as I would use of Clays, with the same waa12 wad, win209 primer, 1 1/8 oz. shot, in a AA shell.
 

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From what I recall you should use double the amount blackpowder that you would have used if you are loading smokeless.. ITS NOT HOW WELL YOU SHOOT, ITS HOW MUCH NOISE YOUR GUN MAKES.
 

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Very interesting replies.......The evolution of shotshell loads for those used in muzzleloading guns to the present offerings.......followed a set rule. The early relationships between the amount of powder (in drams) vs the amount of shot (in ounces) is still with us today and set the loads indentification. The only difference now is they are listed as Drams Equiv. Early loads set the same amount of BP (by volume) as shot (by volume). This is still a good recipe today in loading BP shotshells.I would suggest using large capacity hulls like the Fiocchi hull and using a rolled crimp. Black powder has a lower presure than smokeless. Best Regards, James
 

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Go to www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html I ran across this guy while searching for ammo to use in a black powder skeet event I'm participating in later this spring.Even though I don't reload,I found it very interesting.He gives advice as to what types of black powder to use,amounts,etc.Even shows pressure curves in relation to amount of force at different spots down the length of the barrel.For instance,black powder exerts more force near the muzzle than does nitro.Good Luck. Jim
 

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27 grains of black powder is one dram. A trap load is a 3 dram equivalant load. A heavy express load is 3 3/4 dram eq.
This is for a 12 ga.
It is very easy to load black powder loads in a plastic case and shoot them in modern guns. The main problem is clean up, and the powder taking up a lot more room in the case.
You must use a volume measure and drop the powder by hand. You should use card or fiber wads so that you can adjust the thickness of the wad so that you can crimp the shell. Some people cut down plastic wads, but I find that fiber wads work better. It takes a little more time to load black powder shells but they can be a lot of fun. A friend of mine used to put one in every box of his reloads for trap shooting. It really ticked off the trap shooters that take themselves too seriously.
If I can answer any oter questions let me know
 

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My brother shoots BP in an old SxS for a round or two of skeet once in a while. Lots of laughs an fun, especially on doubles.

He loads for it using Federal paper hulls, rolled crimped, with about 86 grs. of BP. Don't know what size, if its FFF or FFFF. Makes one heck of a boom when it goes off. Everybody's head jerks around with a "what the H*ll look" on their faces. :lol:
 

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Back in the early 80's I used to shoot trap at the company range. It was an after work affair, followed by a cold one at an off-site tavern.

A favorite joke to pull on a newbie was to hand them a box of reloads and tell them "first box is on the company"...what they didn't tell them was that there was a shell in the middle of the box loaded with BP. You shoulda seen the look on their faces when it went "BOOM" with that big puff of smoke.

And Yes, they pulled it on me too when I joined.... :oops:
 

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The finer the powder, the faster the burn, the more pressure you get. 2F is probably the best, then 3F. I wouldn't use 4F for loading such a large shell. 4F's main purpose is for priming flintlocks.
 

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I've done it in 28ga and 12. Paper hulls work the best for bp in my opinion.

My dad loads alot of BP for his older guns.

It's funny to see the earlier replys about it being dangerous. Actually it's opposite. Loading BP is safer and a has a larger margin of error than smokeless.

Any primer, any hull, basically what ever amount of shot you want to shoot and enough powder to make it go.

I loaded some with bismuth also.
 

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The way I understan powder charges is:
Black Powder is a faster burming rate and makes more pressure at the breech area and the pressure drops as the shot travels down the bore.
Smokeless is a slower burning rate and continues to build pressure all the way down the bore as the shot travels. That is why some olde guns (Damascus) barrels failed with smokeless. The chamber could take the pressure but the barrel itself could not.
At least that's what I remember Pap telling me.

Ok.. tell me am I close?
 

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As a matter of fact, you got that wrong. Black powder builds up pressure more slowly.

Progressive smokeless has a lot more breech pressure, and a different shaped burning curve (time vs. pressure).

The reason for failure is that black powder generally produces pressures in the 5,000 to 6,000 psi range, where smokeless produces pressures in the 9,000 to 11,000 psi range in general, and more in the smaller gauges. (Max pressures are different for the different gauges.)

In addition, many guns were made with Damascus barrels, and had various defects in the hammered "welds" that held them together. In addition, improper cleaning of corrosive black powder AND corrosive primers also contributed by causing pits and hidden imperfections in the barrels. Many times, the spiral-wound damascus would let go at the muzzles, and "unwound" to a degree.

BobK
 

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BobK said:
As a matter of fact, you got that wrong. Black powder builds up pressure more slowly.

Progressive smokeless has a lot more breech pressure, and a different shaped burning curve (time vs. pressure).

BobK
Ahh... The story of my life. So what you're saying is basically I had it bassackwards?
 

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I'd like to add that early fluid steel barrels should be treated the same as Damascus barrels, ie. only use low pressure loads for which they were intended.
I'd recommend FF or even F powder (I've used both). Clean barrel with hot water ASAP (soap optional) then oil. Mineral spirit based nitro solvents WILL NOT remove the corrosive residues left behind from BP and/or corrosive primers.
 

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[b:2rfcsq3q said:
pumpgun[/b]":2rfcsq3q]Clean barrel with hot water ASAP (soap optional) then oil. Mineral spirit based nitro solvents WILL NOT remove the corrosive residues left behind from BP and/or corrosive primers.
To add to pumpguns post a little. Clean all the metal parts with lots an lots of HOT soapy water.

My brother shoots BP an what he will do is. Clean an scrub with HOT soapy water till the water is clear, no black junk in the water. Put all the metal parts in a warm oven for a long enough period to thourghly dry the parts. Then remove an lightly oil the metal parts an run a oiled patch down the barrel.
 

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The quickest clean-up is with an old double. Remove the extractors (one small screw and they slide out), take a garden hose with a nozzle on, slide the nozzle into each chamber in turn, and turn on the water full tilt. It really blasts the crud out in a hurry and gets the barrels sparkling. Then, follow up with hot soapy water, and in a few swipes, they are clean.

Clean up the extractors, clean the barrel outsides with a damp cloth, and dry and lightly oil the barrels inside and out.

Wipe down the receiver with a damp cloth (hot soapy), then wipe it dry and lightly oil.

A fast, efficient and very good clean-up method.

BobK
 
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