[robadams.legend]

You have yet to refute my original statement. That being that union jobs pay higher wages and higher total compensation than non union jobs. That fact is not even debatable. Yet here you are.

I have to ask why you're against your fellow Americans making more money??

I don't have to refute anything you said, because you proved you don't even know how union reps get their positions. My fellow Americans would make more money if they learn a skill, learned their worth, and stood up for it.

 

[Gator89]

You have yet to refute my original statement. That being that union jobs pay higher wages and higher total compensation than non union jobs. That fact is not even debatable. Yet here you are.

I have to ask why you're against your fellow Americans making more money??

I worked for one of the largest animal feed manufacturers in the country for 20 years, at both union and non-union plants. The union employees did not make more than non-union in that company. Each union plant had its own contract, various unions too, Teamsters, Bakery Workers, one was rep'ed by the UAW.

One plant striking could not shutdown the rest of the plants in the company.

The company made sure to pay wages equal to or better than other feed manufacturing jobs in a given market.

I have sat across the table from enough business agents to make me appreciate never having to pay for their services.

 

[Gator89]

Right to work laws are just nanny-state, big gubmint regulations. There’s no reason for the state to govern private, mutually agreed to contracts between private businesses and private unions, which is what so called right to work laws actually do.

Interesting thought, but nothing is more in favor of big government than the big unions.

 

[40Shotguns]

I worked for one of the largest animal manufacturers in the country for 20 years, at both union and non-union plants. The union employees did not make more than non-union in that company. Each union plant had its own contract, various unions too, Teamsters, Bakery Workers, one was rep'ed by the UAW.

One plant striking could not shutdown the rest of the plants in the company.

The company made sure to pay wages equal to or better than other feed manufacturing jobs in a given market.

I have sat across the table from enough business agents to make me appreciate never having to pay for their services.

One can always find outliers WRT equal pay in a non union vs union plant. I'm not pro union nor am I against unions. The overall average data shows that union jobs pay higher wages and higher overall compensation than non union jobs. I've presented data proving that. No one has presented data to refute that fact. Despite numerous opportunities to do so.

 

[Jeff711]

I always love the discussion of Union versus non-union jobs and how much the workers get paid. Granted union workers do on average make significantly more than non-union workers. However, something that is rarely taken into consideration is cost of living. Most unions are located in states with significantly higher costs of living than non-union States. If you compare the cost of living in New York versus Georgia you're going to find a significant difference. I live in a right to work state or as some call it a right to get fired state, but our cost of living is very low. It's really about how far your dollar goes.

 

[oneounceload]

still get the tax breaks that effect the bottom line.... that's all they care about.

Whatever tax breaks they MIGHT get do not offset the huge costs incurred being in those states

 

[J.Fred_Muggs]

You can stick a fork in Ilion.

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www.wktv.com

Maybe not.

Ilion was modernized a some years ago. The modernization was financed by a agency of New York State. The quid pro was Ilion had to remain open and employing X number of workers. I don't know if that obligation applies to RemArms.

 

[Gator89]

One can always find outliers WRT equal pay in a non union vs union plant. I'm not pro union nor am I against unions. The overall average data shows that union jobs pay higher wages and higher overall compensation than non union jobs. I've presented data proving that. No one has presented data to refute that fact. Despite numerous opportunities to do so.

Both of my parents were union members, railroad and post office. I don't begrudge folks being in a union, but I am glad I have worked outside of one for my career.

 

[RandyWakeman]

Maybe not.

Ilion was modernized a some years ago. The modernization was financed by a agency of New York State. The quid pro was Ilion had to remain open and employing X number of workers. I don't know if that obligation applies to RemArms.

It doesn't. Just what is it you think RemArms has been doing for the last 2 years?

 

[J.Fred_Muggs]

It doesn't. Just what is it you think RemArms has been doing for the last 2 years?

I don't know what RemArms has been doing. Does NY have still have financial hooks in Ilion or RemArms?

 

[Rooster booster]

Never understood the gun manufacturers in unfriendly to gun states.

Think about when these companies were started………Remington, Colt, S&W, Mossberg, etc.. the states they started in were not remotely anti gun for decades.

 

[RandyWakeman]

Does NY have still have financial hooks in Ilion/RemArms?

They never did.

 

[Hesser]

In time probably most ALL gun manufacturing will move out of the north to the south.

Or to other countries like Turkey, Japan, etc

 

[Scatergun71]

Whatever tax breaks they MIGHT get do not offset the huge costs incurred being in those states

Our TAX was broken years ago!
Mike

 

[Scatergun71]

I have spent too much time on the picket line to debate the pros of any union. I had to stand there silent and watch three men murdered on three different occasions and no one was prosecuted. Baseball bats burned in the barrels. The only people that ever benefited were union leaders. The people who lost were consumers. Look at the price of cars. Look what's happened to Teachers Unions, you're going to love seeing children having their parents jailed for a point of view. Next time you hire an electrician, plumber, or carpenter be sitting down when you get the bill. I have heard too many lies that sent companies into bankruptcy or moved overseas because of unions. And God bless Jimmy Hoffa, our hero.
Unions have done some good for Coal miners, but we don't make textiles here anymore. Do you think Robotics will ever have their own union?
It's just my opinion. Mike
PS: Honk your car horn if you agree or disagree.

 

[birddog456]

I am a retired, licensed, union plumber, in the state of “Chicago”. I’ve worked in other states west and south, in the non-union sector. The wages, safety, skill level, and benefits of being union far exceed the non-union.
My son lives and works in Arizona, a RTW state, as an operating engineer. I know his wages are less than half of what one would make in our area. I don’t know if AZ unions have a training/apprentice program for its members like up here, or comparable benefit packages, but I hear him complain about substandard(non-qualified) coworker and supervisor performance.
I don’t agree with everything our local, or the UA, try to feed us, but I have no regrets and would much rather be represented by our union than attempt to survive elsewhere. I can honestly say if I weren’t, I’d still be working with very little insurance, pension opportunity, or income.

 

[davesy]

I always love the discussion of Union versus non-union jobs and how much the workers get paid. Granted union workers do on average make significantly more than non-union workers. However, something that is rarely taken into consideration is cost of living. Most unions are located in states with significantly higher costs of living than non-union States. If you compare the cost of living in New York versus Georgia you're going to find a significant difference. I live in a right to work state or as some call it a right to get fired state, but our cost of living is very low. It's really about how far your dollar goes.

I only worked at one company which had a union. I was one of the workers on the floor which meant I belonged to the union. I disliked it a lot. It was like the workers vs. the management. There was nothing in between. Rules, rules, rules. Too many rules! I would rather make a little less money and be able to have a normal relationship with my supervisors as well as my co-workers. Needless to say, this job did not last that long. I know money is important and we cannot live without it but I wasn't raised with this type of an adverse relationship. I always tried to do my best and believed if I did that I would be compensated fairly.
Now let's get back to talking about fun stuff; breaking clays with friends!

 

[cmysix]

I have worked both. The unions think everybody owes them something and the worst among them is protected from firing. Always at odds with the company always on the edge of a strike, I’m in Alabama. A millwright making more and working all year, unlike my kind in Chicago good benefits and none union. Georgia is the same, last union I was in was “sorry for your bad luck “ when the lay offs came they had nothing for us.

 

[friend of a friend]

The states were not unfriendly to gun manufacturing companies when were first built. The slow creep cane with time.

And those states aren't unfriendly to gun manufacturing, just gun selling. If you have a paid off investment in CT, why would you take a loss to move to the South and start over again, barring incentives, of course. Smart businesses don't get in a snit over some imagined 2A insult and cut off their noses to spite their faces. Only shooters do that.

 

[milton68]

Yeah....we don't want those companies to have to pay a single dime more than they have to pay to those greedy workers. I mean....we would all rather have guns built by minimum wagers rather than to have guns built by someone making $25-$30 an hour who actually gave a rats a$$ about the guns they were building.

Everyone complains about greedy corporations taking advantage of tax breaks and corporate welfare, but God forbid we let workers organize to protect themselves from abuse and low wages offered by those same greedy corporations.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, union workers make $200 more per week than non union workers. We can't have that now can we??

Why do you think so many of our jobs are lost to China and other low -cost countries? Why so many are locating or relocating to the south? I wonder how many union workers work full time compared to non-union? Wonder why products cost so much more? Do you complain about the cost when you have to hire a tradesman? Unions put their members out of work in Detroit. A decent wage, yes; outrageous wages and benefits, no.