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LSelo;

I can see why you have gone through a divorce and a career thing.

If you think anybody who has something that costs more than yours does is a snob, then I see who really is the snob here.

If indeed all you said is true about what YOU paid for your Ruger vs. what others have paid for Browning and Berettas USED, you are either comparing the Ruger to an EELL or SO or Golden Clays or maybe grade VI Brownings. Or you stole the Ruger or paid something like $500 for it, new. I suppose if that situation IS true, then you did get a very good gun for the money, but the more you know about good quality shotguns the more you will realize that the Ruger just isn't one of them. Regardless of what you may think.

I'm glad you like yours, even a Ruger is probably better than NO gun and probably better than a Bakial, Kahn, Huglu, etc., etc. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it!

Almost without fail, anybody I know who really knows shotguns and or uses them heavily does not have a really high opinion Red Labels. Folks with a passing knowledge of shotguns or even firearms in general or who don't really use one a lot, or don't or can't even comprehend what using a shotgun a LOT really means, probably do like them and will be completely satisfied with one.

Just don't try to blow smoke up our trouser leg about how wonderful they are and how anybody who has a shotgun you can't afford or has, as you call it, snob appeal IS a snob or doesn't know what they are talking about. That just isn't so. A rose by any other name is still just a rose!

No I don't have a Ruger, and for a lot of very good reasons, and none of them have to do with price or snob appeal. I couldn't care less about what you think of me based on MY preference of shotguns. What it boils down to, is you don't know what you are talking about, simple as that. You are destined to learn the hard way, well maybe not, you may be one of the lucky few?

I could give you names and phone numbers of folks with first hand experience with them, I was smart enough to not buy one in the first place even though I lusted for one for years after they announced them. Typical for Ruger to do that, blow smoke for years before one really shows up on the gun rack. It's NOT a rumor or someone's long lost friends third wife's step son heard one time kind of thing. But delude yourself if that makes you happy.

That's what it's all about anyway, if you're happy it doesn't make any difference what the rest of the world thinks! :roll:

BP
 

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I hope GuestHunter told the prospective buyer of his shotgun about the problems he had with it. Passing a problem gun off to someone at a gun show without telling them about the problems is not a good thing.

Scott
 

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LDelo said:
I just bought a RRL Sporting Clays engraved. Before you tell me I'm on crack and they don't make such a thing, call Ruger. [...] My first impression of it and IMHO the gun splits the difference between what one might describe as the Mossberg 500's of the O/U world and the more expensive snob-appeal guns. [...] That, with the nice (but not snob price/class) gold+engraving [...] I can't fault the gun for the fit, and in fact it does fit me better than most guns (even the snob-class guns) do.
I am surprised that you have any interest in clay sports at all given the number of snobs (your word) that will surely be sniffing at you and your off-brand gun each you pass by.

LDelo said:
Is this thing hand-milled with toothpicks out of a single block of ancient super-high-grade mystical off-shore steel that was slowly heat-treated for over two centuries by remaining in the always-burning dung stove of Tibetian monks who prayed over it every day, later to be cooled during new-moon ceremonies in milk taken only from virgin yaks, then hand-carried to Belgium/Japan/Italy by 13 yo blind monk acolytes in bags made only from the skins of albino yetis born under full moons on the slopes of Annapurna, complete with signed affadavits testifying to all those facts (with appropriate notorized translations and a sample of the dung thrown in for authenticity)? [...] Were the parts hand-milled (see above), hand-finished, and then polished so highly that I can see my own rugged, dashing, "I've killed a continent's worth of critters and shot over a bazillion rounds of super-duper-they-only-sell-it-to-good-ole-boys-who-know-the-secret-handshake-and-wear-only-$10,000-handmade-Belgium-shooters-vests-special-target-loads" mug in it? [...] Does it come anywhere close to the fit-n-finish of a Beretta or Citori or... ____________ (fill in the blank with the name of your favorite snob-class-only-the-best-can-afford-it-handcarved-inlayed-engraved-handlapped-barreled-Briley-choked-ancient-old-growth-stocked-handrubbed-forever-my-butt-plate-alone-costs-more-than-your-car) gun??
I wouldn't know about crack, but is that Hoppes #9 I smell on your breath?
...j
 

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Actually, the stock is pretty much hand fit on the RRL. I saw a special on these shotguns on OLN (I think) and it showed the fitting that was done with the stock. I think that there is a great deal of care that goes in to putting these guns together. I do not own one but have shot a friend's several hundred times (when I was first trying to decide about sporting clays and o/u's). All of his grandchildren have learned on the gun, my daughter learned on the gun, he himslef has shot it a great deal...thousands upon thousands of rounds...and it has never once failed. He has his own sporting clays course and reloads every gauge and we would literally take a small wagon filled with shells for this gun and shoot until they were all gone. He would have them reloaded in a couple of days and we would be back out there putting shells through it. That gun has never, never failed.
 

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Burnt Powder said:
LSelo;

I can see why you have gone through a divorce and a career thing.

If you think anybody who has something that costs more than yours does is a snob, then I see who really is the snob here.

[ snip ]

BP
First, my post was meant to be primarily tongue-in-cheek as much as anything else, though that appears to have been lost on most you folks. I thought the whole monks-with-the-two-century-dung-stove-annealing thing or the part about albino yetis were dead giveaways.

Beyond that, I was going to work up a big response and all, but the fact that you either intentionally or out of sloppyness mis-spelled my name, and then immediately launch into a petty ad hominem attack, pretty much says it all.

For the record I didn't say people who own nice things are snobs, I refered to certain classes of guns as snob-appeal guns.

That's a bad choice of words on my part, the word carries perhaps more negativity than I intended. Perhaps elite (elistist, elitism) is a better term.

And while it is not a given that folks with nice things are elitists, it is also true that folks who can afford nice things and then spend their time attacking and belittling anything and anyone else (for whatever reason) and who can't seem to get past that, are elitists or just plain snobs.

Interestingly, you and I actually agree on a number of points, but I'm not in the mood to work up a detailed post just now.

BTW, I went out Saturday and shot six rounds with the new gun and having only shot a couple rounds in the last few decades and never having shot much or all that well for that matter.

Discounting one round where I got flustered, I shot well into the 20's with my new gun. It was probably beginners/returnees luck and all, and I certainly wouldn't want to claim I could repeat the performance or anything. Heck, I can't even say what it was I was[n't] doing per se.

But it raised more than a few eyebrows, even with the guys with the real expensive "we'd all recognize the make and model" guns, to the point where at times there was quite a crowd around the gun rack saying things like "Hmmm... what kinda' gun is that, it sure seems to shoot nice...", then asking to check it out. Go figure...
 

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j beede said:
LDelo said:
I just bought a RRL Sporting Clays engraved. Before you tell me I'm on crack and they don't make such a thing, call Ruger. [...] My first impression of it and IMHO the gun splits the difference between what one might describe as the Mossberg 500's of the O/U world and the more expensive snob-appeal guns. [...] That, with the nice (but not snob price/class) gold+engraving [...] I can't fault the gun for the fit, and in fact it does fit me better than most guns (even the snob-class guns) do.
I am surprised that you have any interest in clay sports at all given the number of snobs (your word) that will surely be sniffing at you and your off-brand gun each you pass by.

LDelo said:
Is this thing hand-milled with toothpicks out of a single block of ancient super-high-grade mystical off-shore steel that was slowly heat-treated for over two centuries by remaining in the always-burning dung stove of Tibetian monks who prayed over it every day, later to be cooled during new-moon ceremonies in milk taken only from virgin yaks, then hand-carried to Belgium/Japan/Italy by 13 yo blind monk acolytes in bags made only from the skins of albino yetis born under full moons on the slopes of Annapurna, complete with signed affadavits testifying to all those facts (with appropriate notorized translations and a sample of the dung thrown in for authenticity)? [...] Were the parts hand-milled (see above), hand-finished, and then polished so highly that I can see my own rugged, dashing, "I've killed a continent's worth of critters and shot over a bazillion rounds of super-duper-they-only-sell-it-to-good-ole-boys-who-know-the-secret-handshake-and-wear-only-$10,000-handmade-Belgium-shooters-vests-special-target-loads" mug in it? [...] Does it come anywhere close to the fit-n-finish of a Beretta or Citori or... ____________ (fill in the blank with the name of your favorite snob-class-only-the-best-can-afford-it-handcarved-inlayed-engraved-handlapped-barreled-Briley-choked-ancient-old-growth-stocked-handrubbed-forever-my-butt-plate-alone-costs-more-than-your-car) gun??
I wouldn't know about crack, but is that Hoppes #9 I smell on your breath?
...j
WRT the interest thing, some of the guys and I were chatting about that at the range yesterday. They all had a good laugh when I refered to shotgunning as ******* golf. Then one of them started waxing philosophical about boys and things that go boom! and bang! and breaking things and all that. Call me a sucker for punishment, but apparently such is the price I will have to pay for playing with things that go bang! and boom! and break things. Guess it's a guy thing.

As to Hoppe's, is that stuff still on the market?? I couldn't seem to find any, most the places around here sell pressure cans (rattle cans) of stuff, even the better shops. Crap, I remember my dad (WW II vet, no longer with us) showing us the proper and safe way to clean guns with that stuff when I was knee-high to a grasshopper. Anyway, yes it would be gun cleaner and lube you're smelling...
 

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KT13 said:
Actually, the stock is pretty much hand fit on the RRL. I saw a special on these shotguns on OLN (I think) and it showed the fitting that was done with the stock. I think that there is a great deal of care that goes in to putting these guns together. I do not own one but have shot a friend's several hundred times (when I was first trying to decide about sporting clays and o/u's). All of his grandchildren have learned on the gun, my daughter learned on the gun, he himslef has shot it a great deal...thousands upon thousands of rounds...and it has never once failed. He has his own sporting clays course and reloads every gauge and we would literally take a small wagon filled with shells for this gun and shoot until they were all gone. He would have them reloaded in a couple of days and we would be back out there putting shells through it. That gun has never, never failed.
The stock being hand fit is interesting. I was led to believe the RRL's were pretty much mass produced and that was that.

However, the stocks are cut out of pretty nice pieces of wood and are pretty well fit for a gun in this price class, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were hand fit at some point along the way. In fact the forestock is kinda' pesky to get back on, like it was almost too well fit. But now that it's been off and on a number of times, the release is working in a little and it's starting to fit very well, not loose and in fact a little tight but overall very well.
 

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ShotgunT said:
LDelo - I think you've got the gun you deserve. :wink: Enjoy it. :roll:
Well, I shot better with this gun than I have with any of the B-guns that a half dozen friends own and that I've been allowed to shoot with over the years. In fact, excepting the one Baikal I borrowed for a weekend, I shot better with this gun than any other, period.

So, be snide all you want, but since in my (apparently simplistic and uninformed) mind breaking clays is the whole point, I'll take it, thank you very much!
 

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LDelo said:
So, be snide all you want, but since in my (apparently simplistic and uninformed) mind breaking clays is the whole point, I'll take it, thank you very much!
Usage of the words "snob" and "elitist" are good indicators for identifying ad hominen attacks.

Visiting a range for the first time in decades, upsetting the rhythm of the squad and then referring to clay sports as "******* golf" is an interesting way to impress your new friends--bringing along a Ruger O/U only adds to the atmosphere.

If breaking clays is the whole point then why not buy a gun optimized for clay breaking? Perhaps you could have spent the same or less on a competition grade pump or semi-auto?

Is it your habit to introduce yourself to strangers by referring to them as "snobs", "elitists" or "********"? I sense that your notion of humor is a bit off-center, and turned up a few notches. As you know humor and cynicism are not always effectively communicated in print.

...j
 

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j beede said:
--bringing along a Ruger O/U only adds to the atmosphere.
What would his choice of gun have to do with it? I don't have as much SC experience as many here do, but I have made many new friends while shooting, and I have never seen anyone judged by what kind of gun they were shooting, be it high or low end. There's a word for those who would do so.... :!:
 

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ccs789 said:
j beede said:
--bringing along a Ruger O/U only adds to the atmosphere.
What would his choice of gun have to do with it? I don't have as much SC experience as many here do, but I have made many new friends while shooting, and I have never seen anyone judged by what kind of gun they were shooting, be it high or low end. There's a word for those who would do so.... :!:
Maybe where you shoot "*******" and "snob" are terms of endearment? There's a word for those who quote sentence fragments to make their point... :!:
 

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What do "*******" and "snob" have to do with my question? Rest assured neither is the word I was alluding to.

I quoted only the portion of your post that was relevant to what I was asking.

And what is the word for "those who quote sentence fragments to make their point..." :?:
 

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bridgeburner said:
Since breaking clays is the whole point.... and you shot a Baikal better than the Ruger....then why (in your simplistic and uninformed view) :wink:, do you choose the Ruger? Just trying to understand the logic. :?
I did NOT say I shot better with the Baikal.

I said the Baikal was the only other gun I'd shot AS WELL with.

I shot essentially the same scores.

As to why I bought the RRL, I believe that's been beat to death, and if folks don't want to accept it that's on them.
 

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j beede said:
LDelo said:
So, be snide all you want, but since in my (apparently simplistic and uninformed) mind breaking clays is the whole point, I'll take it, thank you very much!
Usage of the words "snob" and "elitist" are good indicators for identifying ad hominen attacks.

Visiting a range for the first time in decades, upsetting the rhythm of the squad and then referring to clay sports as "******* golf" is an interesting way to impress your new friends--bringing along a Ruger O/U only adds to the atmosphere.

If breaking clays is the whole point then why not buy a gun optimized for clay breaking? Perhaps you could have spent the same or less on a competition grade pump or semi-auto?

Is it your habit to introduce yourself to strangers by referring to them as "snobs", "elitists" or "********"? I sense that your notion of humor is a bit off-center, and turned up a few notches. As you know humor and cynicism are not always effectively communicated in print.

...j
Except that I was refering to behavior, not specific persons. It is explicitly and logically impossible to mount an AD HOMINEM attack (which literally from the Latin means "at the human" or "after the human") when one is refering to behaviors (and classes of people - not specific individuals - who may or might exhibit those behaviors.)

On the other hand, there has been no shortage of very blunt insults and etc leveled directly and specifically AT ME herein ("stupid", etc ad nausem at point), and those most definitely ARE ad hominem attacks. No ifs, ands, or buts. Period. QED.

You are right that things come off differently on boards and in email, and perhaps that's how things get spun up like they have.

As to the rest...

I did not go into the local club calling people names, and would never do that.

I didn't do that in here either, but that's not the specific point you were making.

I went into the club and shot, and made friends with those who were friendly at all.

And judging by the reception I received I was very successful, as everyone was clearly glad to see a newbie taking up the sport and were clearly glad to make my acquiantance and chat about things.

The reference to ******* golf was made in good natured fun, it was very well received and caused everyone who heard to have a good chuckle/laugh. In point of fact, by the end of the day it was being heard off and on around the club from a number of mouths.

As to disrupting the squad or line (whichever the right term is), since I am a newbie and at times get flustered or my timing is off, that is not something myself (or others) should be getting bent out of shape about, and if they do that us solely on them.

Finally, about the gun, I have a pump and was tired of dealing with a pump or auto on the trap line. In at least a couple clubs I've shot at over the years they are much stricter about etiquette with pumps and autos, etc. In one club and with one trapper, they never wanted to see a round in the magazine (you might forget...) In another club or with another trapper, they didn't want to see rounds dropped directly into the chamber (the action could get closed accidentally if you drop the gun, etc.) It seemed to be an issue far more often than it ought to have, and it was inconsistent.

The ou is the standard of the sport, at least as far as I can tell from my exposure to it, so that's what I went with.
 

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L Delo, I applaud your use of the Language and how you construct a sentence. If you are having job/career issues you should think about writing. Nough said. Let's get to the issue at hand that seems to elude many. The great thing about our country is that we have forums where free speech is allowed. Cheap attacks by anyone is not a good thing. I fought for these freedoms and I love reading them put to good use.

I have owned and used Rugers for a long time. Had a 357 hidden in my belt in the jungles of Vietnam, republic of... back in the 69/70 years.
Owned more than a few of them over the years. I own an all weather RRL that I love. ( I wish they would have manufactured into it some better scores but that is because it is not a more expensive gun....they come with scores built in.)
Anyway, I just bought a 28 gauge rrl for my daughter and it came, in the box, broken and unusable. I called service and was given a real idiot explanation at first. I obeyed and then called again. I lose patience with fools and drunks etc. (bad habit form my years with the NYPD) but that is another story. I basically told the girl not to pee on my leg and try to convince me it ewas raining.
Gun went back to them. They fixed it (?) in three days. Called last week and was very happy to find it was at the range for test fire. Called today and found out it will be thereat for an additional two weeks or more becasue they are so backlogged with guns. Definitely not a good answer!

Where does this take us? Well, I still like Ruger, I am disappointed with them and this product but that does not mean they are all junk. I have had a new Browning go totally bad from day one and it too went back. There is an inherent problem today in the workforce that no longer believes in a fair day's work etc.
It is not a good thing when people like us fight amongst ourselves over nonsense! There are plenty of enemies out there that need to be concentrated on. For instance, Kerry, Kennedy ( any of them) and Clinton. Let any of them get into the seat and we will need all of the guns and ammo to keep this country free. That is, of course, if they let us have them.

Just a humble opinion.
Relax, enjoy the sport and safeguard it.
 
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