SBE3 Round two...

981 Views 12 Replies 5 Participants Last post by F*W*F, 2 mo ago

Makoman

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

A few weeks back, I patterned my SBE 3, manily to test for POA/POI purposes. There's a lot of talk, and a lot of evidence out there of the SBE3 shooting high or high and left. I had been wanting an SBE3, but was on the fence because of all of the reports but decided to pull the trigger on one since I was very pleased with my Montefeltro that I purchased the year prior.

Last time around, I forgot to pattern with my tightest choke. Since I live in a "lead free" state and primarily use steel shot, that's what I shot my patterns with, only I used a Modified choke as my tight choke. That's the tightest I'm willing to go with steel shot, and the tightest constriction Benelli recommends using for steel with their chokes. I know there are some aftermarket chokes out there that will let you go tighter, like Trulock with their IM choke, but M is the tightest I'm willing to go.

That said, just like my previous pattern tests, all patterns were fired from a rest at 40 yards as measured with a Leupold range finder. All shots were with Federal Upland Steel #6, 1400 FPS. This is my go to dove, chukar, and quail load. Shots were fired using the OEM Benelli Crio Plus chokes in Modified and Improved Cylinder. I also tested a newly acquired Trulock Light Modified/Skeet II choke. I used a Briley LM choke last time around, but wasn't too happy with how it patterned. I aimed at the bottom of the red square for all shots fired.

I wanted to test at 20 to 25 yards as well, but unfortunately it started raining and literally put a damper on things.

For those of you on the fence about getting an SBE3, my gun is but a sample of one, but I'm hoping it's indicative that Benelli has hopefully, finally addressed the issue. My gun also happens to be the 3" chambered version, not that that should make a difference.

If you can open the images in a new window, you'll be able to zoom in and see the pellet strikes better.

SBE3 with OEM Crio Plus Modified choke.

SBE3 with Trulock Light Modified/Skeet II choke.

SBE3 with OEM Crio Plus Improved Cylinder choke. I remember thinking to myself that pulled my shot a little right on this one, and it shows.

And just for the helluvit, I patterned my Montefeltro Silver Featherweight again as well.

Monty with OEM Crio Plus Modified choke.

Monty with Trulock Light Modified/Skeet II choke. Sorry for the condition of this target, it got a little wet. Sorry for the lighting too, I forgot to snap a picture while it was hanging on the pattern board, took the pic at home in my garage.

Monty with OEM Crio Plus Improved Cylinder choke.

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StinkeyPete

· #2 · 2 mo ago

You aimed at the bottom of the red square. The paper is designed for you to aim at the target, so I did some photoshop work for you:

The grey circle is the 30" diameter circle for determining your choke. I counted 78+136 = 214 pellets.
Federal Upland Steel 12 gauge 1 1/6 ounce #6.. Federal says that's 354 pellets.
214 inside the grey circle/ 354 total pellets = 60.45 % which is just as Modified choke should be.. 60%. I'm ignoring that the center of the patter is a bit high. If I recount from the black circle which looks about centered... I get... 75+147= 222 inside out of 354 = 64%.. still modified!

There are about the same number of pellets to the left and right, so I am not going to count those.
136 above/ 214 inside the grey 30" circle = 64% leaving 36% below.. this is a 64/36 pattern or close enough to 60/40 that it's not extreme. Yay!

Your Monte is very close to 50/50, which is what I prefer. You can just eyeball it... it seems to be shooting a few inches low on the pattern but you were AIMING a few inches low...

Next time, aim at the clay bird in the middle of the target! It makes counting a lot easier as someone already printed that circle on the paper for you!

Now, claiming Benelli has fixed the problem is pretty bold.. I'd keep those pieces of paper rolled up and in storage in case you ever want to sell that SBE.. you can show it shoots 60/40 and the next guy doesn't need to worry!

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Makoman

Discussion Starter · #3 · 2 mo ago

StinkeyPete said:
You aimed at the bottom of the red square. The paper is designed for you to aim at the target, so I did some photoshop work for you:
View attachment 77452

The grey circle is the 30" diameter circle for determining your choke. I counted 78+136 = 214 pellets.
Federal Upland Steel 12 gauge 1 1/6 ounce #6.. Federal says that's 354 pellets.
214 inside the grey circle/ 354 total pellets = 60.45 % which is just as Modified choke should be.. 60%. I'm ignoring that the center of the patter is a bit high. If I recount from the black circle which looks about centered... I get... 75+147= 222 inside out of 354 = 64%.. still modified!

There are about the same number of pellets to the left and right, so I am not going to count those.
136 above/ 214 inside the grey 30" circle = 64% leaving 36% below.. this is a 64/36 pattern or close enough to 60/40 that it's not extreme. Yay!

Your Monte is very close to 50/50, which is what I prefer. You can just eyeball it... it seems to be shooting a few inches low on the pattern but you were AIMING a few inches low...

Next time, aim at the clay bird in the middle of the target! It makes counting a lot easier as someone already printed that circle on the paper for you!

Now, claiming Benelli has fixed the problem is pretty bold.. I'd keep those pieces of paper rolled up and in storage in case you ever want to sell that SBE.. you can show it shoots 60/40 and the next guy doesn't need to worry!

Holy smokes Pete! Thanks for doing that. I was dreading counting the pellet strikes because I know I'd keep losing count and having to start over lol, but I at least wanted to get the patterns posted for all to see. This is awesome.

I agree, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Benelli has completely fixed the issue. To make that conclusion with confidence It would take a lot more members patterning their SBE3's and posting their results for us to get a large enough sample to make any positive conclusions. I'm happy that I appear to have gotten a good one at least. I'm ecstatic that this thing isn't shooting the 0/100 high and left patterns we've seen so many times from these guns.

A question. I read somewhere that the high and left issue doesn't seem to plague the 3" guns. Have you heard/read this anywhere? That just doesn't make any sense to me as I can't imagine what besides chamber length could possibly be different between the 3" and 3.5" guns.

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Brusso1989

· #4 · 2 mo ago

New member here and I have been reading up on the high and high left stuff for about awhile now and have seen mixed things. I have a supernova that is about 13 years old and finally pulled the trigger on a 12 gauge SBE3 with 3” changer a few days ago. It should be in sometime next week and I’ll have to keep you guys updated with some test targets with it. This is a bit of a relief to see but one thing I’m gonna try, is shooting both standing up AND on a rest. I’ve read it’s important to stand, mount your gun to your shoulder as normal, float the bird/target and shoot when pattering. I believe this is more due to testing out the shims and dialing the gun to the shooter but after I do that and shim it according, then I’ll do some shots off a bench to see if there’s a difference. Have you tried shooting cheap low power loads out of it yet?

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StinkeyPete

· #5 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

When counting pellet holes, mark them with a felt tipped pen. I used those yellow and orange dots.

One shot data shows the typical "holes" in the truly random pattern. The next exact shot, the hole at the 4:00 position would be filled in but the pattern perhaps light in other places. This is why I shoot at the target 3 times but then... I am going to just do 2 shots because I get sick and tired of counting. There is a phone app for this task, but it requires shooting at special targets. Randy has a video about this software.

There is a youtube video of a guy who has (to my mind) exactly solved the problem. If you look under the forearm of your SBE, you'll see that the threaded stop-ring that is loc-tighted in place. This guy got the loc-tite off, then my slowly moving his stop ring position he could make his pattern move up and down in sync with the tension the forearm lock ring is putting against the stop ring, thus moving the barrel. I calculate that the angle needed for the deviations seen by some is less than one degree.

The difference between 3" and 3.5"? I have no idea or data that this hypothesis is true.

My solution is that I won't buy a Benelli. The company showed they won't stand by the product and it's completely established some of them are defective and why take the chance and why reward bad corporate behavior? There are too many very nice alternatives.
***

and NO! You do NOT float the bird when patterning! You do your test from a rest, and you sight like a rifle and aim exactly at the target. The object is to test the gun's performance.

a different test is your fitting.
When testing your fitting, you fire from how you shoot, and.. .that's a whole other subject.

Think of it this way- your house has a crooked foundation and the contractor tells you "No, it's fine! You just need to get tables and chairs with 2 legs shorter then the others, and trousers with one leg longer than the others. It's the European style!" Offsetting a gun that does not shoot straight by messing with the fitting is full of compounding errors that make your life needlessly complicated.

For example, I know what my shotgun stock fitting numbers are. I should be able to dial any gun in by ordering it with that stock or setting it up that way. I should be able to hand my gun to a pal and he should be able to shoot it. Especially with a $1800 recoil operated semi auto.

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Makoman

Discussion Starter · #6 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Brusso1989 said:
New member here and I have been reading up on the high and high left stuff for about awhile now and have seen mixed things. I have a supernova that is about 13 years old and finally pulled the trigger on a 12 gauge SBE3 with 3” changer a few days ago. It should be in sometime next week and I’ll have to keep you guys updated with some test targets with it. This is a bit of a relief to see but one thing I’m gonna try, is shooting both standing up AND on a rest. I’ve read it’s important to stand, mount your gun to your shoulder as normal, float the bird/target and shoot when pattering. I believe this is more due to testing out the shims and dialing the gun to the shooter but after I do that and shim it according, then I’ll do some shots off a bench to see if there’s a difference. Have you tried shooting cheap low power loads out of it yet?

I probably should have added that I used a "standing" rest. I have one of those tall bipods that allows you to shoot from standing. They don't have any benches in the patterning area at my gun club unfortunately, so I couldn't fire off of bags from a bench. I will also add that I did have to adjust the drop and LOP on the SBE. The gun pointed low for me out of the box. The Montefeltro on the other hand lined up perfectly out of the box and only required an LOP adjustment.

Please do let us know how your gun patterns. The more info/data we have with regards to the SBE3 the better. So far as loads go, I have to double check. I just buy the target loads at my gun club when shooting there, but I think the loads are 1oz. They have cycled without issue in both my guns, but I will double check later on today to make sure.

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Brusso1989

· #7 · 2 mo ago

StinkeyPete,
what you said makes sense. I am vary familiar with pistols and rifles but fitting/patterning shotguns are new to me. I wrestled with the statement you made about rewarding a company for bad customer service for the past year when I was trying to decide what higher end shotgun I was gonna buy. I wanted an inertia semi auto and I pretty much had it dialed down to a browning A5 or the SBE 3. The A5 wicked wing only comes in 3.5” I believe so I didn’t want to risk it with the lighter loads. Trust me, even if my gun shoots good, I don’t like the idea of Benelli not taking care of their customers. I got the SBE for about $500 cheaper than I would have spent on the A5 so that did push me a little towards the SBE. Am I crazy for knowing the issues of some of the past SBE‘s and still buying one? Ha, ya I’d say so. Probably not the dumbest thing I’ve done with $1500 but damn near close to it, maybe…

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StinkeyPete

· #8 · 2 mo ago

You don't need to justify... when they work they look like great shotguns.

I just feel for my brothers because I get a special joy from getting a new gun that meets my expectations. It's in my hands for hours a day for some of the best days in life.

If they know there are problems, they should fix it. I'm not a mechanical engineer but you can look exactly at the production problem they have... not rocket science at all to put in a test with a cheap fixture and two lasers about the price of cat toys to set the stop ring to the right location. Grr.

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Rooster booster

· #9 · 2 mo ago

How does it shoot for you on flying targets?

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Makoman

Discussion Starter · #10 · 2 mo ago

I'm definitely no George Digweed, but I think it shot fine. I shot two rounds of trap that day. I hit 21 and 19 respectively. Hope to try some sporting clays in the next couple weeks.

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Rooster booster

· #11 · 2 mo ago

Makoman said:
I'm definitely no George Digweed, but I think it shot fine. I shot two rounds of trap that day. I hit 21 and 19 respectively. Hope to try some sporting clays in the next couple weeks.

That’s good. I’d say if it shoots like that on flying targets, combined with your preliminary patterning for POI, you’re good to go.

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Makoman

Discussion Starter · #12 · 2 mo ago

Rooster booster said:
That’s good. I’d say if it shoots like that on flying targets, combined with your preliminary patterning for POI, you’re good to go.

Agreed. That’s pretty consistent with how well I shoot my other two shotguns. I had seen and bookmarked the barrel ring adjustment video referenced by Stinky Pete before I purchased this gun. That was going to be my next step if this one was a lemon as I wasn’t going to send it back to Benelli based on all the threads I’ve read about their [email protected]$$ed fixes. Hopefully my one sample is indicative that Benelli has finally finally resolved to address the issue. Hopefully it’s that, and not that I just got lucky.

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FWF

· #13 · 2 mo ago

Makoman said:
I probably should have added that I used a "standing" rest. I have one of those tall bipods that allows you to shoot from standing. They don't have any benches in the patterning area at my gun club unfortunately, so I couldn't fire off of bags from a bench. I will also add that I did have to adjust the drop and LOP on the SBE. The gun pointed low for me out of the box. The Montefeltro on the other hand lined up perfectly out of the box and only required an LOP adjustment.

That is how I prefer to test POI on a shotgun: standing up, with the gun steadied on my Primos Triggersticks, with my posture as much as possible as I would be shooting at an actual target. Hunkering down on a bench can spoil the natural relationship of your face with the stock, thereby moving the rear sight (your eye). The only way to avoid that at the bench is if your natural mount happens to produce a visual relationship between the rib and bead(s) which is exactly repeatable.

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