The best semi-auto you can buy for $600 is a used Beretta 303 or 302. Much more reliable than a new gun of any of the models you named. There are plenty of them on gunbroker.com

 

Darn it Seamus . . . shhh. Nobody wants those old ratty things. :|R

 

If you are going to use it just for clays, then find a Winchester Super X model 1. IMO there is no finer semi to shoot 2 3/4" shells ever made, period. You can find one in that price range and it should be pretty nice, just keep looking.

 

Super X-1's are old, un-cool, and they need a lot of work. I'd recommend a Beretta 390 in that price range.

 

Isn't the Beretta 390 an older version of the Beretta 3901

 

If im not mistaken the action is the same other than the 3901 having a rounded edge on the back-top of the reciever.

 

I have found a few used 1187 and 1100 trap guns at shops or asking around at the trap ranges.Great guns to start or stay with at trap until you decide if you are going to do it a long time.I have found most of them for 500 or less.

 

im looking into buying a semi auto shotgun. im looking for a 12ga 28in or 30in shotgun. im still relatively new to the world of shotgun. i own a remington 887 but im getting more into trap and decided to get a shotgun that would work better than a pump.

Autoloaders don't work better than pumps for trap unless you mean trap doubles.

As far as the 303, I was attempting to jab Seamus in his O'Caiside. The grand exalted Seamus didn't bite, so I hang my head in abject failure.

303's and B-80 rate as among the best, most practical autoloaders ever made in my book-- and on the "lightly used market"-- among the best values. As a matter of fact, I just bought yet another one for no particular reason last week:

I have a nasty habit of buying 303's when people are trying to give them away, a sad trend that I've been afflicted with for many, many years.

 

yea sorry wrong choice of words. i didnt mean better and my intention was for doubles. i want to join a league but its hard to get my numbers up at doubles with a pump and this league uses regular trap as well as doubles.

 

The Winchester Super X-1 is truly a great weapon for all clay games depending on barrel length and stock. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise, they just want all of them for themselves.

 

Boys...boys...boys....

Steer the young man toward a Benelli or 391 (it's a generational thing).........

But, if he is an ENLIGHTENED ONE.....and likes to become a soulmate to his shoutgun......then there are only two worth mentioning: A mystery shotgun and within the Beretta family .....the Beretta 303! The 303 is a legendary firearm among people who REALLY KNOW Beretta semiautos.....simple, handsome, RELIABLE, POINTABLE.....the Best value in Berettas....the 390 is a distant second in this family....the other Beretta stuff we won't bother to mention.....

Option 1. Go to gunbroker/auction arms, etc. and find a lightly used 303 (price range is $450-$650). Ideally, you could find a Sporting Clays (30" Mobilchoke barrels) model.....but, I doubt it....evena field model with 28" Mobil choke barrels or even better, a 30" Mobil Choke trap model (they had flat ribs) will do. You do not want one with a 3" magnum barrel unless you shoot a lot of 3 and/or 3 1/4 dram loads. Get a hold of Rich Cole and get a Magnum mainspring ($10) to replace the one in the gun. Get the 55mm shim for the stock ($7) and put an extended Light Modified choke ($25-$40) for shooting lead. Shoot the gun WET with Break Free CLP (liquid, not aerosol) and you, sir, are better equipped than people with $10,000 K-80s.) :wink:

Option 2. Go to the classifieds in this site. Ask the guy selling the Super X-1 with Mike Orlen chokes to see close-up pictures of the bolt face, gas system, trigger, barrel....if, up close, the gun is as good as it looks.....BUY IT NOW.....REPEAT, BUY IT NOW!

Merry Christmas! (Consider the above-mentioned advice a free Christmas present!)

 

As far as the 303, I was attempting to jab Seamus in his O'Caiside. The grand exalted Seamus didn't bite, so I hang my head in abject failure

I knew you were just baiting me! You are the founder and president of the Old Beretta SA Fan Club, and I am VP. {hs#

The 303 is a legendary firearm among people who REALLY KNOW Beretta semiautos.....simple, handsome, RELIABLE, POINTABLE.....the Best value in Berettas....

I agree 100% with the first part of that, but "best value in Berettas"... well, I think the older models, like AL-2 and 302, are just as good and sell for less, because a lot of the 303 worshippers (like Bangalore and Randy) tend to overlook the others.

For the last several months I have been doing all my sporting clays competition with an AL-2 with 32" 303 trap barrel and Muller choke tubes, and shooting better than I ever have before. Even though I wrote the book on the 391, I have abandoned it (the gun, not the book) in favor of the more reliable and more pointable (for me) AL-2.

 

Alright, you guys are really starting to make me want to take a good look at a 303. I had my round with the 391, but alas it wasn't for me. I love my SX1's and wouldn't give them up for anything, but maybe there is room for a decent Beretta in my stable. DARN YOU, something else I don't need but am starting to want.

Randy, you don't have an extra, do you? {hs# :lol:

 

Alright, you guys are really starting to make me want to take a good look at a 303.

Just remember that the Berettas are much lighter than the SX-1. For me, that is a big plus, but if you like and are used to an SX-1 you might not like the Beretta unless you add weights to it.

The first SA shotgun I ever owned was a nice SX-1. I shot one round of 5-stand with it, took it straight back to the dealer and traded it for a 391. The SX-1 is well-made, but to me shooting it is like trying to mount and swing a railroad tie. Shooting an SX-1 vs a 391 is like making love to Oprah vs Paris Hilton. In more ways than one, actually ... a whole lot of people shoot a 391. (Oops ... did I say that? :lol: )

 

how about a browning silver. my friend said he would sell me his for 650. its in great condition. hes ex military and gun maintenance is very important to him and i feel more comfortable buying from someone i know takes care of his guns. its about 2 years old and hes only put about 2oo shells through because he has A LOT of shotgun. only problem is that its the field edition. it still has a 28 in barrel. i figure i could just buy an extended mod choke for it and it should be good for trap. maybe buy a different stock with an adjustable comb. what do you guys think?

 

Peter, stay with the cheapest possible solution. It's the shells that break the clays.

 

Sounds like Seamus needs to rewrite his book including all Beretta shotguns? It would force you into a couple of Xtrema's and an A400 though.

I like to understand how things work. While that might limit me to rubber band guns and slingshots, a 303 is more useful.

As to the subtleties of 300, 301, AL-1, AL-2 . . . things are just about as clear as mud. I've seen AL-2's with square receiver buttons, some with round buttons. When, exactly, stock shims became standard issue in the line I can't say.

There are a few attributes I personally don't like, like the old collared drop-in choke tubes. When exactly those came in and when they went away I'm not precisely clear on. The same goes with the solid shell carrier that compels you to push the bolt release to load the magazine. The bolt stop / mag cut-off was moved to the forearm in the 303, sometimes. I've seen 303's with the flippy lever thingy on the right side of the receiver as well. When, exactly, the buttoned carrier and stock shims became 100% standard "for sure" is something I don't know. It is almost as if Beretta constantly changed configurations in the middle of the run and eventually decided to add a digit to the model later on.

The B-80 is also full of the "variety is the spice" stuff. You have the 2-3/4 in. barrel, the 3 inch barrel, and the "Plus barrel" for 2-3/4 in. and 3 inch shells. Along the way, you have the recoil adapter that was seemingly added to the receiver at random to "aid ejection." Not just alloy or steel, you also has the "Superlight B-80"-- which wasn't any lighter than the standard models based on the ones I had, but it was awarded a new designation anyway.

This is one of the "303 Limited Edition" 20 gauges I bought when they appeared. Beretta told me that there "is no such model." That's not the normal Beretta receiver, ostensibly a sourced BBI part, etc. The "limited edition" part seems to be limited to whatever piles of parts they had they wanted to make into guns somehow.

Seamus has spent more time with Oprah and Paris than I have, so I'll have to bow to his experiences on those matters.

 

I have had great luck with Urika 391, clays , ducks, geese, turkey , pheasant ,qauil . we had a 'hat shoot' at my dads local sporting clays range , the deal was they had a trap they would through 4 birds on at one pull and you had to beake 4 birds with 4 shots. The 391 was up to the task. Super relaible.

 

Sounds like Seamus needs to rewrite his book including all Beretta shotguns? It would force you into a couple of Xtrema's and an A400 though.

I've been thinking about that, Randy. In fact, I have used that as an excuse for buying more guns - I am assembling a collection for research purposes only :lol: However, I am determined not to mess with the Xtremas nor A400. Maybe I could title it "Beretta 300-series Shotguns - What the Owners Manual Doesn't Tell You" and below that I would write "Covers all 300-Series Models and Clones Except Xtrema" and then below that "AL-1, AL-2, AL-3, A300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 390, 391, 3901, Browning B-80 and Breda Altair".

I have been working on all the history questions you raised. I also have researched the Model 60 Silver/Gold Lark, which came before the 300-series, but there is no point in including that in a book. The 3 examples I own are probably a quarter of all the Larks still functional in the USA, and they are really not a very good gun, so nobody would buy a book about them.

Your 20 gauge "303 Special Edition" is interesting. It is actually built on a leftover Breda Altair receiver. For years Breda sold Altairs that were modeled on the Berettas, and were reputed to be "copies" of the Berettas. They are rare in the US, but common and highly-regarded in Europe. I have one in my collection, and I am convinced that the metal parts were actually made in the Beretta factory, so they are not exactly copies (no more so than the B-80 is). Breda sold an Altair based on the 303 (my 12 ga is one of those) but when Beretta went to the 390, Breda started getting their guns from a maker in Turkey. The Beretta 303 Special Edition came out after the 303 was "replaced" by the 390, and the curve on the side of the receiver is absolutely identical to the Breda. Obviously, Beretta produced the special edition as a way to use up leftover Breda receivers.

Randy, I will send you an e-mail asking for info and help.

 

AL-1, AL-2, AL-3, A300, 301, 302, 303, 304,

Is there a reliable indicator that all Beretta 300 series shotguns have the stock shims to adjust drop? That has never been clear as some folks claim they have 303's without stock shims-- though I've never seen it.

Is there any reliable information on what models have the carrier release on the carrier, so depressing the bolt release is not required to load the magazine, and which ones do not?

Whatever Garcia imported seems cloudy and erratic. My undestanding is that when Browning had an "interest" in Beretta - - - the ("302-1/2" B-80 was launched with no (or very little competition from Beretta). Eventually, the Browning/Beretta partnership dissolved, ending the B-80 run and bringing the A303 into a prominent role, while Browning was left with goose-eggs, the A500, or a gun that was a spectacular failure. Not until the Gold did Browning have a competitive autoloader in the commericial sense, other than the A-5.

 

Whatever Garcia imported seems cloudy and erratic.

Quite so. Garcia continued the policy that Galef had used before them, putting American-sounding model names on guns that Beretta sold elsewhere under their own names, and getting Beretta to make some cosmetic changes on guns they sent to the US. Garcia's AL-1 and AL-2 are mechanically the same as Beretta's A300 and A301, although the 300 and 301 may have been available in other countries with options that blur the distinction.

Is there a reliable indicator that all Beretta 300 series shotguns have the stock shims to adjust drop? That has never been clear as some folks claim they have 303's without stock shims-- though I've never seen it.

I've heard that, too, but the people who say that are usually surprised to learn that the little plate inside the stock is actually a shim that adjusts for drop (not cast). There is no shim between the stock and the receiver until we get to the 304/390 (the 304, rare in the US, is a 390 with a 303 gas system). Every 30x gun in my collection has that drop shim, including an AL-1 and an A300. Wilson quotes the 1971 catalog (note that the A300 was introduced about 1965) as saying the A300 has the shim. I suppose some early 300's may not have had the shim, but I am not aware of any.

Is there any reliable information on what models have the carrier release on the carrier, so depressing the bolt release is not required to load the magazine, and which ones do not?

As far as I know, the 302 was the first. Parts lists do not list a carrier release plunger for earlier models. When I started shooting my AL-2, I thought I would put a later trigger group in it, but I have learned the technique now, and it really isn't hard at all. (The 302 trigger group won't work in any other model, because of the screwy magazine cutoff which also serves as the trigger group retaining pin.)

It is almost as if Beretta constantly changed configurations in the middle of the run and eventually decided to add a digit to the model later on.

I agree completely. Example - early 303's had the 302-type cutoff lever, before they went to the forearm button mid-model. I have a 303 with both types of cutoff, which makes no sense at all, unless a previous owner swapped out the barrel, forearm, and operating rod. That is possible, but I suspect Beretta just used up the parts they had on hand.

It seems odd to me that the AL-2 had a round bolt release button at first, later went to the square one, and later all models used a round one. Go figure!

The drop-in tubes are generally associated with the 302. Wilson says the earliest description of it he saw was the 1980 catalog, where it was described as the "A302 Mobilchoke". BTW, those tubes are still available from Armeria Brignoli Silvio, the factory's European parts distributor.

Randy, did you get my e-mail?

 

Responded to it: 7/5/2010 1:40:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time.

It is a BI proof (1997) on both barrel and receiver.

 

If you really like 300 series Berettas (as I have since the 70's) here is what I found:

1. For a hunting gun the AL-2 cannot be beat (put a magnum mainspring in it).
2. CANNIBALIZE YOUR 303s: Let's just say, I 've had more than a few, but I am partial to the 303 target receiver (matte top); jeweled bolt from a DU gun; 32" or 30" flat rib trap barrels; DU wood and the 55mm shim. You can have the follower also jeweled on your own. The flat rib trap barrels are the ones to have! Timney used to work on my triggers.

Over the years, I probably financed Rich Cole's new building with all the magnum mainsprings I bought (keep any gas semiauto happy and healthy by often changing mainsprings-if you shoot it a lot)...I was happy. My 303s kept humming..........But then, something life-altering occurred.....I shot THE ONE.......I still love my 303s and will never sell them....but, for the last ten years or so, they are relegated to second place........

For, THE ONE is infallible, it points itself, it is beautiful and reliable...loyal and forgiving....I can't miss with it, even if I try.........BEHOLD MY BAUMGARTIZED X-1!

Anyone with "tuned" X-1s and 303s should apply to Mensa

 

The AL-2 spring "is" the magnum spring that's what's in all my B-80's and 303's. I think the myth of the magnum spring started with Bruce Buck, but it was the longer AL-2 spring all the while. Bob Baumgart used to "debate" the virtues of the SX-1 whenever he had a dull moment. He used to send out copies of the "SX Model 1" promo video the Winchester reps carried. I was never convinced, but Bob sure loved them.

The SX Model 1 never was completely explored, never making it to 20 gauge and never making to 3 inch chambers, shims, and all the other goodies that I know of. It didn't help that Winchester was selling the 1400's at the same time. My understanding is that, aside from the overly heavy bolt, the main way that the SX-1 was stuffed up was that it wasn't easy to make a 3 inch gun out of it without a substantial, costly rework. The B-80 and 303 never had that issue-- a barrel change and you're good to go.

Seamus, the "Beretta Autoloader Fireside Companion" has a lot of appeal. Though you might find it arduous and personally distasteful to include Xtrema's and the A400, for sake of completeness it makes it a more attractive book.

 

Randy, something is wrong with the e-mail system. I did not get your response, and I suspect that I missed a response from you several months ago. Please e-mail me at jpcassada@comcast.net

Thanks!