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Although the shill/shield situation on the gun auctions has gotten much better lately, it is AMAZING to me that dealers continue to use shills and shields during one of the most thorogh investigations of gun auctions that we will probably see in our lifetime by the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). How can these people be so stupid?

Gun dealers had better wake up on this issue, as shills/shield execution in federal law is considered a conspiracy (the entire auction law is based on conspiracy law), and will result in federal prosecution.

I heard one gun dealer say, "prove it". The Feds don't have to prove anything, they will put you out of business with legal expense, and they will deny use of your gun license.

One of the highest risks for gun dealers is the selling of estate guns, as a service, on the gun auctions, and the family members of the estate act as shills/shields to drive the price higher without the gun dealer being aware. However, the dealer is still liable for these practices by the very fact that he has a federal license, and is providing supporting action to a conspiracy.

I do believe that the liberals will use the information from this investigation to outlaw internet gun sales, unless, the auction sites themselves can clean up AT LEAST the most obvious examples of conspiring against the bidders.

Interesting issue that will affect all of our lives in the 21st Century.
 

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This stuff goes on with EVERY on line auction... Ever try to buy a hot item on ebad? Someone will snatch it from you. Shills/shields is a common practice on nearly any bid item you care to mention.

bd
 

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drsfmd said:
Guys... 5 year old thread... please don't dredge up ancient threads!
Asking for an update isn't dredging up old threads. If it bothers you, you can A. not read it and B. ask the Admin to lock old threads so they can't be discussed again or C. add something useful to the thread.
 

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Sorry, Charlie, but netiquette is netiquette. Drsfmd is spot on. If you want an update that bad to a thread that generated so much interest the first time it was posted that nobody responded to it, try PMing the original poster.
 

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I've got to agree with Charlie D If you don't like the post -skip it, there are plenty of others. Is there a memory shortage issue in cyberspace that is limmiting the number of post and comments? I doubt it. Probably well over 90% of the threads I see are rewritten old topics. If anyone has a usefull comment to any thread than it dosent really matter that it was disscused before and when , hence, it is still an active topic. If the topic is five years old than there is probably new pertanant info regarding it, dont ya think? If anything, it should be the topic repeated from two weeks ago that should be shuned, not one from years ago.
 

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I'm all for not dredging up an old thread that asks which gun should be bought or some time sensitive question. However, he asked if this was still going on and that is relevant to today. Well is it still going on?

I don't even know what Shills and Shields are. :shock:
 

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Not to mention that since he is somewhat of a newbie, if he had started a new thread one of the 1000+'s would have told him to SEARCH first. So, obviously he did what every oldtimer complains about and now - instead of just answering his question - you bother to rag on him for it.

Either make a archiving rule or get over it. Some of us are not mindreaders.

Rastoff, as for what Shills and Shields are, my understanding is they are basically people that artificially drive up the price by placing bids when they are related to or working for the seller. And if an item looks like it will sell to cheaply, a shield will bid to a minimum amount and even "win" the item if necessary to keep it from sellling low.

Its based on the concept that Reserve style auctions don't traditionally attract as much action, and thus, do not sell as high as No Reserve auctions. So you make your auction a No Reserve, but then use a dummy bidder to get the price to the minimum. It only backfires if you have to pay a heavy seller fee to the auctioner - which is not true on most online auctions. The fees are low enough if you fake a sale, it hurts less than selling to low. Plus, on Ebay it is evidently easy enough to say the buyer never paid since your "buyer" is fake anyway.
 

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I am with you on that.

I go to Barrett Jackson every year in Scottsdale and ever since they went to a basically 100% no reserve auction, there have been rumors in the Buyers area about that type of activity going on in conjunction with the Auction company.

I have no idea how true it is, but there was a time that you could get a decent deal at that auction. Now that they have gone 100% No reserve, nothing seems to roll of the block at less than forecasted sales price and they seem to set more new records every year.

Classic car collecting has become "in fashion" in the last 10 years, but it also makes one think if something else is going on that helps sellers not loose their shirts but still allow BJ to say they had a 100% sales success.

Makes for exciting watching, but I have only bought 3 cars there in the last 5 years vs 10 in the 5 years before - so it does not make for such great buying.
 

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MRPOWER said:
Sorry, Charlie, but netiquette is netiquette. Drsfmd is spot on. If you want an update that bad to a thread that generated so much interest the first time it was posted that nobody responded to it, try PMing the original poster.
'netiquette indeed MRPOWER. On some sites, the admins prefer not starting a new thread in this situation. I didn't realize you do. In any case I prefer hearing it from you as a mod rather than an undercover internet security guard. :wink:
 
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