Thanks to the moderators for moving this. I thought sporting clays shooters would discuss the incomer drill as a training aid and I’d kill two birds with one stone. Will start a separate post.
Skeet Hot Box
In a January, 2022 CTN article about referees there was a reference to moving from station 8 to station 1 called Hot Box (there’s no need for the obvious jokes). I only occasionally shoot skeet using the John Shima incomer drill so my knowledge of skeet is superficial. A search of the site didn’t offer an explanation of what this means.
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Without knowing with absolute certainty I think the term "Hot Box" could mean the lead off squad member goes straight to station 1 upon the squad's completion of the round of 25 targets on station 8 and begins the next round of targets. This keeps the field "hot" in shooting terms. I don't really care to do this but sometimes it's necessary to keep the squad moving in the interest of time constraints.
Would you have to carry 100 shells for this? No time to dump empties and grab more shells. I think a little decompression time between rounds is necessary. Not a lot, but some.
There's plenty of time to do it. Shooters 1 & 2 bring at least 4 extra shells with them, and dump/load after they shoot station 1. Shooters 4 & 5 dump and load as normal. Shooter 3 has the choice depending on how quick he is.
Between rounds is the biggest time suck there is. Some squads like to shoot the **** for 5-10 minutes per round, which adds up to 15-30 minutes at the end, turning a squad that finishes on time to one that's quite a bit over. Compound that by 6 flights in a day, and it's not that hard to end up with your last squad finishing 45m-1hr after it was supposed to.
IMHO 8-1 should be very strongly encouraged for everyone, and in fact should likely be mandatory for squads that are incapable of completing their 4 rounds in their 80-90 minute window without it.
Between rounds is the biggest time suck there is. Some squads like to shoot the **** for 5-10 minutes per round, which adds up to 15-30 minutes at the end, turning a squad that finishes on time to one that's quite a bit over. Compound that by 6 flights in a day, and it's not that hard to end up with your last squad finishing 45m-1hr after it was supposed to.
IMHO 8-1 should be very strongly encouraged for everyone, and in fact should likely be mandatory for squads that are incapable of completing their 4 rounds in their 80-90 minute window without it.
Skeet_man has it exactly right. Last Saturday, we threw a night shoot and were time constrained due to consideration of the residents nearby. I mandated that 8 to 1 be used by all squads. The refs helped on this by reminding the lead-off and #2 shooters to take extra shells. We ran a two-gun, two rotations(with full squads) shoot in 5.5 hours. That included all shoot-offs. We would not have finished until well past midnight without using 8 to 1.
My squad sometimes rolls from 8 to 1, especially when the weather is extremely hot.
Less time in a 90+ degree heat will always help you to shoot better.
It's also a good idea when storms are approaching... at any temperature!
It usually takes us 65-70 minutes to complete regular skeet with 5 shooters and about 55 minutes for doubles.
The referees really appreciate the longer break between squads.
Less time in a 90+ degree heat will always help you to shoot better.
It's also a good idea when storms are approaching... at any temperature!
It usually takes us 65-70 minutes to complete regular skeet with 5 shooters and about 55 minutes for doubles.
The referees really appreciate the longer break between squads.
I guess it's okay if the whole squad likes that.
I don't like it on my squad. I don't walk away from the squad while others are still finishing at 8.
I don't like to be rushed. I don't take much time between rounds. Usually I just grab another box and I am ready to watch the lookees. I use a shell-bag that holds 100 empties so I don't have to spend time unloading those. Fooling with the empties can eat time.
But usually isn't ALWAYS. I may want to wipe my face and clean my glasses. I don't want another shooter blasting away at Station 1 when I am not wearing eye protection. I may want to add or take off a layer or two clothes. I may add or remove rain gear. Sometimes I want to add a dab of BreakFree to my 1100 mag tube.
If I have a speedy skeeter that makes a unilateral decision to speed from 8 to 1 and I don't get chance to observe the lookees, I'll asked to see them when I am on Station 1.
I don't like it on my squad. I don't walk away from the squad while others are still finishing at 8.
I don't like to be rushed. I don't take much time between rounds. Usually I just grab another box and I am ready to watch the lookees. I use a shell-bag that holds 100 empties so I don't have to spend time unloading those. Fooling with the empties can eat time.
But usually isn't ALWAYS. I may want to wipe my face and clean my glasses. I don't want another shooter blasting away at Station 1 when I am not wearing eye protection. I may want to add or take off a layer or two clothes. I may add or remove rain gear. Sometimes I want to add a dab of BreakFree to my 1100 mag tube.
If I have a speedy skeeter that makes a unilateral decision to speed from 8 to 1 and I don't get chance to observe the lookees, I'll asked to see them when I am on Station 1.
Man. Skeet is about relaxation for me. If I wanted to just rush through targets as fast as I could with a stern face and a timer strapped to my a$$, I'd just go shoot trap instead.
Absolutely, you should shoot recreational skeet at whatever pace suits you and your squad-mates. Just accept that in some skeet scenarios (the above mentioned registered night shoot, for example) your leisurely pace cannot be accommodated and you should skip them.Man. Skeet is about relaxation for me. If I wanted to just rush through targets as fast as I could with a stern face and a timer strapped to my a$$, I'd just go shoot trap instead.
Spot on. Great advice.Absolutely, you should shoot recreational skeet at whatever pace suits you and your squad-mates. Just accept that in some skeet scenarios (the above mentioned registered night shoot, for example) your leisurely pace cannot be accommodated and you should skip them.
I haven’t shot registered targets in years, but was quite active years ago. I don’t remember shooters who were shooting registered birds sauntering around at a leisurely pace. Usually they paid attention and moved along to maintain focus. I never saw a situation where running from 8 to 1 was necessary. But that was then.
I tried to find an old post of mine on the subject of time to shoot 100 targets, but apparently it no longer exists. So what I'm typing is from memory, from roughly twenty years ago when I wasted my time at tournaments timing various squads. The "lightning fast" squads, the "death march" squads and everything in between. This was at a time when some shoots were trying to shorten the allotted time for 5 people to shoot 100 targets, from the customary 90 minutes to 75.
The outliers, lightning fast (50 minutes) and death march (over 90 minutes), defy easy explanation. Both have quirky and unusual routines that contributed to the why, that are far beyond my desire to type.
What I observed in the middle (average) bunch, was that shooters generally lined up at each station and promptly stepped up when it was their turn to shoot. Time between stations didn't seem to be a big issue, except for folks with some obvious disability.
The difference during a round was time on station (duh), but surprisingly it only amounts to an average of about 5 seconds more per shooter per station, borderline slow vs reasonably fast squad. It didn't appear to be a function of load one or two. Regardless of one or two loading, it seemed that guys who like to load the gun and flambe squad together, and the deep thinkers like to squad together. Birds of a feather. Fiddling with foot position, checking hold points and precision gun mounting are favorite time sucks. I'm using the 70 minute squad as a baseline, they typically shot a round in just under 15 minutes and spent 2-3 minutes changing out ammo between rounds.
So the math is easy.... 5 seconds x 8 stations = 40 seconds, x 5 shooters = 200 seconds, x 4 rounds = 800 seconds. 13 minutes. Obviously these are round numbers, but pretty close to what my stopwatch told me. Add to that one extra minute dawdling between boxes (from 2-3 minutes vs 4-5) and we go from roughly 1 hour 10 minutes, to a shade under 90 minutes. It's amazing how 70 minutes seems like a great pace and 90 seems an eternity, when the heat is way up or way down.
The outliers, lightning fast (50 minutes) and death march (over 90 minutes), defy easy explanation. Both have quirky and unusual routines that contributed to the why, that are far beyond my desire to type.
What I observed in the middle (average) bunch, was that shooters generally lined up at each station and promptly stepped up when it was their turn to shoot. Time between stations didn't seem to be a big issue, except for folks with some obvious disability.
The difference during a round was time on station (duh), but surprisingly it only amounts to an average of about 5 seconds more per shooter per station, borderline slow vs reasonably fast squad. It didn't appear to be a function of load one or two. Regardless of one or two loading, it seemed that guys who like to load the gun and flambe squad together, and the deep thinkers like to squad together. Birds of a feather. Fiddling with foot position, checking hold points and precision gun mounting are favorite time sucks. I'm using the 70 minute squad as a baseline, they typically shot a round in just under 15 minutes and spent 2-3 minutes changing out ammo between rounds.
So the math is easy.... 5 seconds x 8 stations = 40 seconds, x 5 shooters = 200 seconds, x 4 rounds = 800 seconds. 13 minutes. Obviously these are round numbers, but pretty close to what my stopwatch told me. Add to that one extra minute dawdling between boxes (from 2-3 minutes vs 4-5) and we go from roughly 1 hour 10 minutes, to a shade under 90 minutes. It's amazing how 70 minutes seems like a great pace and 90 seems an eternity, when the heat is way up or way down.
I used to shoot a club squad. The exact shooters changed from shoot to shoot.
But when one particular shooter was included, we always took the full 1 1/2 hours. All the shoots we attended had 1 1/2 hour flights, so no harm/no foul.
But when one particular shooter was included, we always took the full 1 1/2 hours. All the shoots we attended had 1 1/2 hour flights, so no harm/no foul.
I’ve done this a couple of times at the World Shoot and once at Bandera when the squad ran late from a guy with gun problems. It is no trouble at all.
I normally shoot leadoff on our squad. We essentially do this, only I just walk to the bench or table where my shells are left and pickup a new box and head to station 1. The number 2 shooter is right behind me. I have plenty of time to towel down, clean glasses, or what ever while 2 thru 5 are shooting station 1. Been doing it that way for years.
But 3, 4, 5 shooters may not get a good look at the lookeesI normally shoot leadoff on our squad. We essentially do this, only I just walk to the bench or table where my shells are left and pickup a new box and head to station 1. The number 2 shooter is right behind me. I have plenty of time to towel down, clean glasses, or what ever while 2 thru 5 are shooting station 1. Been doing it that way for years.
They aren’t going to be that different from the ones they saw before the first box. Besides, it’s OK to move your gun to where the targets are.But 3, 4, 5 shooters may not get a good look at the lookees
Oh come on…… bet they look very similar to the previous round.But 3, 4, 5 shooters may not get a good look at the lookees
That 3,4,5 thing is just funny. I guess depends on how slow they really are.
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