[UsmcZook]

Greetings,

I will be hunting with a Mossberg 695 and I want to take my wife with me and my 12 Ga Mossberg 500 w/ rifled barrel is too much gun for her.

My father has given me an old 16 Ga, bolt action shotgun with a full choke (forgive me for not having the name). What i was wondering was can slugs be shot through it and if so what type: fosters, rifled, sabots?

I have heard several different opinions about this: see links below from people who say yes you can.

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/gone_modern.html
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/milshotg ... ?read=5125

I also have a youth model Mossberg 500 20 ***** w/ 3 choke tubes. Would this be a better gun for her and which choke tube and what type of slugs?

Thanks for all the help. This is a wonderful site.

 

[cutEM05]

I would not shoot any slug through a full choke barrel, especally the foster type slugs. Shooting slugs through a barrel that is choked to tight will tear up the thin lining on the inside of the barrel.

I would let her shoot the 20 gauge with the most open choke tube you have for the gun. Typically this will be Improved Cylinder. Shoot a rifled slug through an unrifled barrel.

Andy

 

[NRICH316]

I HAVE A BROWNING 12GA. WITH A POLY CHOKE. CAN YOU TELL ME IS THE SLUG SETTING THE MOST OPEN CHOKE OR MOST CLOSED? I KNOW X-FULL IS MORE CLOSED. WHAT KIND OF SLUGS ARE BEST FOR A SMOOTH BORE WITH THIS CHOKE? I HEARD SABOT SLUGS DO NOT FIRE WELL IN SMOOTH BORE BARRELS.

 

[italiansport]

Well I guess this "slugs through a full choke barrel" is never going to go away. I assume everyone here understands "lawsuit". NO manufacturer is going to put themselves in the position to be sued because of an inherent problem with there ammunition. There is NO danger in shooting rifled slugs thru a full choked shotgun barrel assuming the gun is in good condition. This is due to the fact that rifled slugs are smaller in diameter that the tightest full choke. Rifled slugs are actually finned and this is done in an attempt to stabilize the slug in flight. This is also the reason they aren't particularly accurate but this varys from gun to gun and with a variable choke changing the setting may improve accuracy.
The slugs in a full choke gun is an old wifes tale that has been around since I was a kid.
*If anyone questions this I'd suggest you contact any of the shotgun manufacturers and ask them.
Jim

 

[UsmcZook]

Thanks Jim,

I have heard both sides (Don't shoot slugs through a full choke gun) and (It's perfectly O.K. to shoot slugs through a full choke gun).

As for slug selection - I am under the impression that rifled slugs should be the choice for smooth-bore, full-choke guns. Is this correct?

Thanks to everyone for the excellect information.

Jay

USMCZook

 

[Ulysses]

Since I first became a member of this forum several months ago, I have been telling people repeatedly that it will not harm a gun in good condition to shoot rifled slugs through a full choke. Millions of slugs have been shot through full chokes with no harm. I have also said that the slugs are smaller in diameter than the full choke and that the slugs are very soft lead. Just a few minutes ago, to refresh my memory on the numbers, I cut another slug open and measured it. This was a Remington Express 1 ounce 12 gauge rifled slug.

The slug was slightly irregular in its diameter and I got measurements varying from .685" to .691" at the widest parts of the slug. Most full choke 12 gauge guns are between .695" to .700" at the tightest part of the choke. So, you can see that the slug is actually smaller in diameter than the full choke. Besides, the lead is very soft and could easily swage down to a slightly smaller diameter if it had to.

Personally, I would refrain from shooting slugs through Extra Full chokes or Turkey chokes or something like that because they may actually be tighter than .690", but for full chokes of .695" to .700" in guns in good condition, I would have no fear of shooting rifled slugs through them.

 

[italiansport]

Jay:
Yes. Rifled slugs are the way to go for a smoothbore shotgun. You may have to try multiple brands before you find the one that works best in your particular gun.
BTW: My knowledge of using shotguns for deer is probably outdated since I haven't lived in a shotgun state since 1994.
Jim

 

[Guest]

I have extensive experience attempting to shoot rifled slugs through a full choke 16 ga. I say extensive because I had the gun several years before I checked and realized it was a full choke. The barrel was unmarked so I had assumed it was MOD. The fact that it was full and the slugs I had tried all suggested nothing tighter than MOD explains why it was so inconsistent in its grouping. I came over to shotgun sports having shot mostly rifles\target rifles. So I know a thing or two about grouping shots. I never knew where that slug was going to hit. Went to a more open bore, switched exclusively to Brenneke and have found rifled slug heaven. My daughter just turned 13 and I gave her an 1100 in 20ga. Slapped a fiber optic sight on it, took her out with some Brenneke slugs, told her where I thought she should probably hold on the target and she put all the shots within 2 inches at 30 yds. Not bad for the first time shooting slugs through that gun. Those Brennekes are tops. She actually had her skeet tube in. Hopefully she will get her first deer with that gun in a couple of weeks.

 

[CLAY]

Itialian Sport and Ulysses are right on. You won't hurt a gun by firing a slug through full choke. However, it won't be as accurate. Here's why:

Like they said- the slug is smaller diameter than the barrel. As the propellant burns, the expanding gasses leak past the riefled slug. As they do, since the slug is rifled the gasses impart a spin on the slug, like wind through a windmill. On an IC or open choked gun, the diameter of the barrel stays more consistenly opened, so the gasses pass more consistently, and the slug spins nicely. On a full choke gun, as the slug nears the end the barrel constricts, speeding up the gasses passing the slug and accelerating the spins, however since the gasses are no longer as consistent flowing past the slug, the spin can be affected, and the slug loses accuracy.

The slug gets it's spin in the barrel- not necessarily from the air it passes on the way to the target.

 

[Canadian Hunter]

USMC, hey dont listen to all those guys that say not to shoot a slug through a full choke. i have been shootin slugs through my single shot 2 3/4" 12 g with a really full choke (with turkey loads at 35 yards it patterns same as my dads benelli with 3" at 40 yards with a turkey choke so i know its a tight choke) for 4 years now. i have shot about 55-60 slugs through it (i like to practise a bit be4 each season) and it still patterns the exact same as be4 i shot a single slug through it.

i use challenger 2 3/4" rifled slugs with an attacted wad....i dunno if u can get them in the US but here in ontario they r the most popular smooth bore slug.

if ya can get the challengers cuz ive heard from many ppl that they r made for tighter choked guns so u dont have to worry about damaging yer gun.

ch312

BTW.....i can shoot 5 times at a target 75 yards away and make 4" groups and it got a single bead only. pretty good for a no name single shot that i traded a 12 pack of beer for eh....

 

[Ulysses]

CLAY wrote: "As the propellant burns, the expanding gasses leak past the riefled slug."

Clay, I'm sorry to inform you, but that is NOT correct. The reason it is not correct is because shotgun slugs have a large fiber base wad which is between the slug and the burning powder gasses. This base wad seals the bore so that no gasses get past the slug. Actually, there might be a very slight amount of gasses get past the wad as the wad and slug jump from the chamber to the forcing cone, but the amount would be very small. Once in the barrel, the wad effectively seals off the slug from the expanding gasses behind it. So, in effect, this thick wad is actually pushing the slug down the barrel.

 

[Salmoneye]

Ulysses is correct...Spin is imparted to a rifled slug by friction to the barrel only...Gas leaking past a bullet/slug/wad is not a good thing and something that is engineered against in all cases...

 

[CLAY]

Ahh yes- the wad. However, if on a smoothbore the slug either:
A. gets it spin from the air, or
B. gets it's spin from the barrel,

How can a guy get such tight groups for a smoothbore gun? The variables (mainly the air) could vary enough that it seems to me there would be lots of inconsistency.

I guess I had some misinformation from years past- I was told that slug wads allowed some gass to pass by. I never got great accuracy from my smoothbore- hence the rifled barrels I now use. Thanks for the correction guys.

 

[mcbirch]

Spin is only one way to stabilize a projectile. The Abrams Tank fires its projectiles down a smooth bore. Some of those projective are actively stabilized with some type of guidance system but many of the projectiles are passively stabilized. The sabot kinetic energy penatrator round is fin stabilized. The HEAP rounds also are fin stablized and they have very small fins relative to the KE rounds. All of these round can be fired very accurately out to sever thousand meters. Now a 120mm projective has a serious BC when compared to a 12 slug but it always amazes me that some slug manufactures have not tried to create a fin stablized sabot slug for a 12 gage. Especially with the avalibility of the longer 3 1/2 inch cases would make it easier to make a fin stabilized slug that was long and thin enought to fly stable but still have enough mass to be an effective deer projectile.

Sorry that is off topic but it sort of jumped into my mind.

Later
Matt