Steel Shot Failure!!!!

You are aware of the fact that #4s do not cary an ED of 235ft lb/in2 past 25 yards when shot at only 1300fps

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No, I was not aware of that. But I am aware of the fact that #4's seem to have no problem killing ducks. I was on a goose hunt last year and we found we had as many ducks as geese coming into our decoys. I wasn't expecting this so all I had was BB's for geese. I borrowed a few rounds of #4 steel (Federals I beleive) off a fellow hunter dropped three ducks dead with three shots. While three ducks may not be a good "big picture" indicator of how well they perform, the guy I borrowed them from uses them exclusively. He hunts A LOT more ducks than I do so I have to take his word for it that they work. Personally i normally use #2 steel for ducks and I will continue to do so because it works but I have no qualms about using #4's if I had to.
You can do all the ballistics math you want but in the end the proof is in the freezer.

You can do all the ballistics math you want but in the end the proof is in the freezer.

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.....my point exactly!

Reloading hevi-shot will be the best move you can make. 1 shot and the birds are DEAD. Try it you'll never shoot steel again.

Try it you'll never shoot steel again.

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I have, and I'm still shooting HV steel.

Contrary to what some have stated here, it is not mere hearsay that #4 steel is less lethal than #3 steel. It is a scientifically verified fact. The following conclusions are based on decades of study by Tom Roster and the scientists at CONSEP, and are found in their CONSEP 2000 Steel Shot Lethality Table:

-Steel #3 has the best all-around performance for taking ducks.

-Steel #4 has exhibited good all-around performance for taking small to medium sized ducks, but has not proven lethal on large ducks beyond 45 yards.

-Steel #6 has proven lethal out to 40 yards on all ducks tested.

Since the average distance at which ducks are taken in North America is 39 yards, I do not consider steel #4 worth shooting unless it's the only option available. #6 provides a denser pattern and is just as effective out to the average shooting distance. Beyond that range #4 drops out of the picture pretty rapidly, so why bother with it? Just skip strait from #6 to #3 for your second shot.

-Dave

Wow.I love reading the responses to threads like this.I think everybody has some good points.I have used #4 steel within the 30 yard range with good results.Pattern density makes a big difference.I mainly shoot #2 and BB.I shoot everthing from teal to mallards,with an occasional snow goose when hunting a certain lake.I mainly shhot 3 inch 12 gauge.I know my pellet count drops with the BB,my pattern is a little tighter,so I just cut down on them a little tighter.I'am considering getting a 3.5 inch 12 or maybe a 10.I know it is not needed,but I sure do like that extra payload.I have been looking at a gold hunter 10 gauge.I do like the gun.I just have to wait and see how my recovery from my back surgery goes.If I can handle it,I may get the big boy.I love hevi-shot.Stuff works great,I just cant afford much of it.Just remember to wack'em and stack'em and have fun.Good hunting and God bless.

What speed are you shooting those steel #6es at??
At 1300fps they an Ed of 235ft lb/in2 at eighteen yards

If anyone cares to see how their favorite load compairs,
just run off a copy of this chart.
www.deltawaterfowl.org/magazine/2005_01 ... ng_DB.html

tom

blunder said:

What speed are you shooting those steel #6es at??
At 1300fps they an Ed of 235ft lb/in2 at eighteen yards

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I'm not. I shoot Kent Impact Tungsten Matrix myself. Personally, I don't fully believe either the CONSEP study, or the Delta study, and it appears to me that the results of the two studies are utterly irreconsilable.

The reasons I don't entirely believe in either study:

Delta: I think the Delta people didn't do their math exactly right, but don't have a strong enough math background to prove it.

CONSEP: I infer that CONSEP was formed in part to act as a pro-steel lobby, and thus their results are likely to be biased.

Nevertheless, I find it interesting that even the rabidly pro-steel CONSEP organization admits (if you read between the lines) that there is not much use for #4 steel shot.

-Dave

We all know that some of those loads that Delta said don't cut muster have killed 99% of the ducks for the last 20 years.
But, what the chart does do for those that use steel is show them how to best use a given load.

Not to stir the pot....ok, maybe just a little. :lol:

Killed 2 limits last Thrs. and Fri. and shot Fasteel 3" 1 1/8oz #4 on all birds but one and that one fell victim to a #2 load. 10 of the 12 birds were dead before they hit the h20 and I only had to swat one of the two that weren't instantnous kills. The other one bit the dust before I could slap another shell in the SX2. The bird I had to swat was droped with #2s @ 35 yards.

First shot of the morning on Thrs. was a pair of gadwall at about 25 yards. Right when I pulled the trigger another bird crossed flight path with the bird I was shooting at and both of them dropped. 2 birds, 1 shell. Gotta love that!!! :shock:

I'm also very satisfied with #4 steel shot. I very seldom shoot at anything past 40 yrds. and have good kill ratios inside that range, even at the thick skinned canvasback and scaup we're shooting lately. The one cripple we had was shot too far back in the body to be a mortal wound and was dispatched (surprisingly) at over 40 yrds. with #4's through a light mod. choke. Pattern density is what brought this duck to bag with apparently enough energy to penetrate the skull. I do believe the scientific data has merit but it's just not consistent with my results over the last 10 or so years i've been shooting the stuff. I just have never found a good patterned load in #2's that i thought i could live with. I'll continue to shoot #4's until the phisical evidence says otherwise. To each his own.

Its all about how and where your shot is. If #4s work for you then use them, i certainly would not want to use large shot on close targets. It kind of ruins the meat just a little!! I use #4s for decoying ducks and #2s for the rest. It mostly depends on how the day is and ducks working or pass shooting.

George 8)

Agreed!!!

Based upon my experience, #3 steel is superior to #4 or #2 for overall duck hunting. #2 patterns are too sparse and #4 loses too much energy past 40 yards. I shoot 1 3/8 oz #3 1450 fps steel reloads in my SP-10 and 1 1/8 oz #3 1375 fps steel reloads in my 1100 or my Beretta Onyx. In the 12 ga., I limit my shots to 40 yards. With the 10 ga., I go to 50 yards. FWIW.

I'm a big fan of Hevi-Shot myself. We hunt a tree line on a farm and it's hard to get geese much closer than 30-40 yards. I've hit them with steel and seen them keep flying but everything I've hit with Hevi has dropped like a rock out of the sky.

For me, shooting a $500 gun with $400 worth of decoys, why short my ammo, even if it is close to $2 a shell. :shock:

I have settled on Hevishot and tungsten matrix for all of my duck hunting. Both knock them down dead on the water. Sometimes I will let the guys that I am hunting with shoot first with their steel shot. When they are done wounding the bird I take my one shot and drop the bird stone dead. They all use 12 gauges with steel shot. I use a 20. Even with a 20 I still feel like I am cheating compared to their shells.

Zeeks said:

I have settled on Hevishot and tungsten matrix for all of my duck hunting. Both knock them down dead on the water. Sometimes I will let the guys that I am hunting with shoot first with their steel shot. When they are done wounding the bird I take my one shot and drop the bird stone dead. They all use 12 gauges with steel shot. I use a 20. Even with a 20 I still feel like I am cheating compared to their shells.

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Have you considered the possibility that you might just be a way better shot than them? :lol: Seriously though, the pellet counts and pellet energy of your 20 gauge loads are probably superior to those of their 12 gauge loads. IMO, the fact that 12 gauge steel loads work on ducks just goes to show that 12 gauge lead loads were overkill!

-Dave

IMO, the fact that 12 gauge steel loads work on ducks just goes to show that 12 gauge lead loads were overkill!

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Thats why I used to shoot low brass dove loads for decoying ducks. 1 1/8 oz of # 7.5s have a pretty dense pattern out to 30 yards or so.

I do agree that Hevi would be superior in the goose blind, if you shoot good. It cracks me up to see guys either missing easy shots or sky busting with expensive shells. No way Hevi will bring em down at 100 yds.

I have noticed a difference in the way the ducks come down when they are hit. More often than not the ducks hit with steel shot don't die with the first shot. It isn't unusual to see a duck take up to 3 hits before they finally drop with steel. Kind of like a big bomber taking hits from shrapnel. You can see the shot hitting the duck and feathers flying and the bird gliding down. But with my 20 gauge hevi-shot or tungsten matrix when I shoot them I either miss or drop them dead.

I find it amusing when i hear people claim they very rarely get wounded birds with TM or hevi.
It all depends on where the pellets hit the bird, pure and simple, it's all a matter of odds,and patterning homework helps tremendously as well.It don't matter if it's steel or some other non tox, hit i duck with a few pellets in non-vital areas, it don't matter what type of shot it is, you'll have a duck that's not stone cold dead. period...