[Cube3601]

Now I know this might get quite a debate going, but I'm just curious as to everyone's opinions on the Sunset Clause on the 1994 ban of Assault Weapons, or what the government calls assault weapons.
For those of you that don't know, which I'd imagine are few and far between, the 1994 Ban pretty much takes any automatic weapon or weapon that was constructed for military purposes off the market to civilian buyers in the United States. There was a Sunset Clause added to this ban, which set it to expire in 10 years. It's been 9 years.
My views are conflicted, being as I think that honest homeowners should have the right to defend their homes by whatever means necessary. However there's still the obvious, if the background checks are easy to get around, any criminal could get their hands on a high powered assault weapon. I mean hey, if criminals on the street have access to fully automatic rifles and the like, why can't responsible, honest homeowners?
The government and quite a few people favor strengthening the ban, which seems to me like it would encompass taking away semiautomatic shotguns, rifles, ect.
As I said, the only question out of this is, What do you think? I've given my opinion, speak up if you're out there. 8)

 

[javven]

OK, first lets get a few things straight.

Automatic weapons have been illegal since, I think '34.

Military-designed (those designed for the military) are still available to civilians, sans some features which lots of folks wouldn't spring for anyhow (flash hider? bayonet?).

Criminals don't 'get around' background checks by buying from a storefront. Guess what? The crooks will have guns no matter what laws are passed.

Shotguns aren't exempt from this ban, by any means - but honestly the impact is minimal. 18" is pretty short in the bbl department, and most shotguns won't take more than 9 rounds anyhow. Semiautomatic shotguns are not favored over pumps in most cases anyhow. Really the only thing the AWB does to us is make us have 18" (or maybe 16.5") bbls, no more than 10 rounds, and no semiauto with a pistol grip. That doesn't limit me in my purchasing, in any way. Frankly a pistol grip on a shotgun... well we've all got our opinions and I have a negative one here.

You tell me what a 'high powered assault weapon' is? How about my car? 4000lb volvo at 50 mph into a crowd of bystanders...? There's no such thing as an assault weapon, only assaulting individuals. I could assault someone with my Walther P22, my Citori, my AR-15 or my Model 12 and they'd be just as shot, and probably just as dead. What prevents this? Training, parents who taught and gave a damn, respect for others and fear of the friggin law! I actually like owning my guns, so I want to do so legally - so I can shoot at public events without getting run in for unlawful firearms posession.

Lets get real, folks. The crooks will get the guns. The gov't can take them from law-abiding folks but you can just wiggle any idea in your head of gun control legislation making a darn bit of difference to the crooks. What does work? First voilent offense with a firearm = 10-25 in a federal pen at hard labor.

See if that helps....

 

[Ty]

The 1994 ban to which you refer did not ban fully automatic weapons. That was done in the '30's, I believe. The 1994 bill banned "assault" weapons, high capacity magazines (anything over 10 rounds), and several other things. The problem most folks on the correct side of the argument have (like us) with this legislation is that the guns on the list were banned for a completely arbitrary reason: their appearance. Got an SKS with a folding stock? Banned. Got one with a folding stock that has been welded such that it can't fold? That's allowed. Got one with a regular rifle-style stock? That's OK. No functional difference in the way the gun works... Got a gun with a bayonet lug (even if you don't have a bayonet to attach to it)? Banned. Same gun with no lug - OK.

Why ban a gun based on it's appearance and not on it's functional capabilities? To me, and many others, that doesn't make any sense at all.

As far as strengthening the ban goes, I hope that won't get any support. If a criminal wants a gun, a ban or a background check won't stop him from getting it. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's as simple as that.

Didn't mean to restate what the previous poster wrote...We must have been writing at about the same time...

 

[Cube3601]

Gah! Why did I say automatic weapon? I ought to fix that. I knew that those were already banned. Oh well, I guess it fit in. Here's basically exactly what's going on:
http://www.handgunfree.org/HFAMain/reso ... eapons.htm

And, you are right. I'm more on the side of the fence that says why limit weapons. There was a speaker from some IA organization last night on TV that doesn't like the appearance of weapons so he wants to further the ban.

There's no such thing as an assault weapon, only assaulting individuals.

I completely agree with you, javven. And I hope that the strengthened ban recieves no support whatsoever.
I guess I was in such a hurry to get this post up I forgot a few things. :lol:

 

[JabberN]

IMO, If you ban all guns..Then only criminals will have them, And us honest folks will only have knives.....If you ban knives, Only criminals will have them & we will have sticks.....If you ban sticks, Only criminals will have them...And we will have.....errrrrrrrr....."Harsh Words??!!???".

Outlawing drugs has worked wonders here...anyone noticed????

NO!!!!! because Laws are for people that are honest & resepectful.

My point is "if I have one, It's anyones guess!!"

A bullet from a deer gun, Shotgun, Pistol, Muzzleloader.....or anything makes you "Just as dead!!!!"......There are no levels of DEAD....you either are or you are not.

..........Seems alot of people don't understand this!

Guns, Knives, A sharp stick, A really heavy turd!!?? are not the problem!!!!!!!.........IDIOTS are the problem!!

ok, I feel better!

Take care,

Jab.

 

[Quilomene]

How about my car? 4000lb volvo.... I actually like owning my guns....

Javven,

I'm having a hard time reconciling the fact that you drive a Volvo and like guns! :lol:

 

[clayshooter25/25]

That link you gave (handgunfreeamerica) tells nothing but lies. Sure we need to stop violence but lawfull gun owners shouldn't be the ones to blame. The NRA is not about handgun violence it is about SAFE, RESPONSIBLE, gun ownership. I think handgunsfreeamerica should reconsider what they say before they say it. I have always said "say the facts or say nothing at all".

SAFETY, HONESTY, RESONSIBILITY!!!!!!!!!!

LEARN IT, LIVE BY IT!!

Something to think about.

 

[Salmoneye]

Ya know...

I like you guys...

But you are all woefully ignorant when it comes to the legality of 'Full-Auto' firearms...

There is no 'ban' on full-auto in the US...Anyone can own one by simply applying to their local constabulary (that would be police, sherriff, state judge etc) and have them sign a piece of paper saying that you are a law-abiding citizen without any felony convictions or current warrants against you...

Pay your $200 Transfer-Fee (tax-stamp) to BATF and take posession of your full-auto 'machine-gun'...Same goes for a 'Short-Barreled' shotgun, 'Destructive- Device' (such as howitzers) or even silencers...You pays your money, and you gets your ticket to ride...

Y'all need to spend a little more time studying the laws that pertain to our wonderful 'sports' here...

PS...The term 'Assault-Weapon' is redundant and silly...Simple scare-tactics...A bad 'law' that just needs to fade into obscurity...Sarah Brady can kiss my loathsome, spotty behind...

 

[JabberN]

Ya know...
I like you guys...But you are all woefully ignorant when it comes to the legality of 'Full-Auto' firearms

YAAAAAAHHH......Stupidity is bliss!!!!!errrrr, another time!

Jab.

 

[GordonSetter]

I am one of the few and far between that is effected by the ban in the shotgun realm. I can not buy a large mag, pistol grip (I want to try it just to see). I can't wait for the ban to end so I can start to experiment and customize my gun. For the record I do not need a 15 shot clip or a pistol grip, but is chapps me bad to know that AI can't modify my property because the law says I can't! (Yes I'm the jerk that *****es about easments at the town board meeting!)

 

[Salmoneye]

Here we go again...

As a 'Moderator' of whatever board, you should familiarize yourself with the laws a bit better...

You write...

"I can not buy a large mag, pistol grip (I want to try it just to see)."

So go buy one...There are planty of legal ones out there...All made BEFORE the ban...You can not alter a weapon AFTER the ban went into affect If the weapon was in the 'offending' configuration prior to the ban, it is legal...

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(Source: US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 921)

 

[GordonSetter]

Salmoneye sorry to say you need to look at all the facts before you type an offensive accusation like that ...

As a 'Moderator' of whatever board, you should familiarize yourself with the laws a bit better...
-------------
So go buy one...There are planty of legal ones out there...All made BEFORE the ban...You can not alter a weapon AFTER the ban went into affect If the weapon was in the 'offending' configuration prior to the ban, it is legal..

WRONG!! Nothing from before the ban exists for my gun!

My post was about me being in the minority with regards to the ban and shotgunning. I did not say "Nobody can modify a shotgun because of the ban". I own a Saiga 12 this is a known fact around the board. Granted I could have stated that again in the beginning of my post. The Saiga12 did not exist before the ban so I can not modify it. No mags existed, no grips existed, no receiver, no gun! I do know the laws and I know this issue inside out. Since the Saiga has a box mag I can not put a pistol grip on it. If I did it would be banned because it has 2 of the "bad" features. If I were to take a mag from a USAS 12 and fit it to my gun it would no longer fit the USAS12 so the ATF says that is a new mag and is outlawed. Same for adding to a saiga12 mag. I am very active in keeping people informed of the ban and fighting make sure it dies. I suggest you go over to The AWB Sunset Site and read everything you can.

p.s. I've always found it odd that the law is more restrictive of shotguns than rifles...
rifles say more than 2 of these features
shotguns say 2 or more of these features

 

[Ty]

Salmoneye,

If you can't go down to your local gun shop or sporting goods store and buy a fully automatic firearm, or a silencer, or howitzer, etc. without a special license, those items are effectively banned from the perspective of most individuals. We are not necessarily ignorant because we use the term "banned." You are arguing over semantics here. Sure, if you want to go to the trouble and expense to get a license to own fully automatic weapons, you can do it. Or, you could join the Army or the Police and have access to those kinds of weapons. That's not the point.

Don't call people ignorant based on the semantics of their statements. I'm sure most people here are aware that you can obtain a license to own a fully automatic weapon. However, since they are not available to the general public like other firearms, referring to them as "banned" is not entirely incorrect, and is perfectly reasonable in the context of this discussion.

 

[javven]

I like the Volvo. It's good and safe, doesn't hurt at the pump and I don't worry so much with a teenager driving it (son).

I actually have the wagon, which I like. Good looking car, IMO.

My GF is buying it, probably I'll get a 4-runner to replace it.

 

[Salmoneye]

Sorry Ty...

Semantics is exactly what we are talking about here...

The term 'banned' is not that esoteric or difficult to find the meaning of...

'Machine-Guns' are not banned in the US and never have been...'Assault-Weapons' are not banned and never have been...There ARE heavy restrictions on full-auto weapons, but they are readily available all over the country...There IS a 'Ban' on the further importation, or domestic manufacture and sales, of certain Semi-Auto weapons with certain features or appearance...

GordonSetter:

As for a modifying a "Saiga 12"...You are kidding, right?
You are ticked because you can not modify a weapon that never had any possible modifications because there never were any to begin with beacuse the wepaon did not exist before the 'Ban'...

My head hurts after that one...

Don't suppose that you maybe bought the wrong weapon if you wanted to play with modifications?...

Sorry if I am ticking anyone off...I just think that the emphasis here should be on letting the so called 'Assault-Weapons Ban' die...Not complaining about things that have nothing to do with it...Like Full-Auto, or Saiga12's...

Ty...You wrote:

"I'm sure most people here are aware that you can obtain a license to own a fully automatic weapon."

Reread the first flurry of posts, and pay attention to the 'semantics' bandied about in relation to 'full-auto', 'Military-Designed' (whatever that is), 'Assault-Weapon', etc...Not apparent to me in any respect that your statement is correct...

I fully feel that the same ignorance runs through the US society at large and THAT is why we are discussing the 'Assault-Weapons Ban' in the first place...Joe Scmoe at large just does NOT know the difference (between full & semi) and takes what the media (and idiot politicians) feed them and allow the rest of us that do know the difference to have to play games, argue and generally tick each other off to further their Anti-Gun stance...We (as a nation) allowed this silly 'Ban' to become law...Time to let it die...

Knowledge is power...

Words mean things...

 

[HunterJon]

Salmoneye wrote:

As for a modifying a "Saiga 12"...You are kidding, right?
You are ticked because you can not modify a weapon that never had any possible modifications because there never were any to begin with beacuse the wepaon did not exist before the 'Ban'...

Not to be disrespectful, but I think what GordonSetter was trying to say is (please correct me if I'm wrong) that he is mad that the ban won't allow him to get the parts to do these modifications. The parts are out there, they are made in Russia. Somebody from Russia posted a picture a while back, try searching the forums or Google and you'll run across some pictures of the Russian Saiga's all decked out with things things that would classify them as an "assault weapon" here in the US, like pistol grips along with high capacity magazines.

 

[Salmoneye]

GordonSetter wrote:

"The Saiga12 did not exist before the ban so I can not modify it. No mags existed, no grips existed, no receiver, no gun!"

Also said:

"I own a Saiga 12 this is a known fact around the board"

I apologize for not memorizing what everyone else owns...
I have since found his post that goes on for 4 pages about this weapon...I had not read it before as it held (and still holds) no interest for me...

I find complaining about not being able to modify this weapon, the same as complaining about a horse after you have paid for it and it is in your barn...

"Darn...I sure like this horse, but...They should allow me to put a 'Hemi' in this old nag..."

 

[italiansport]

Just to clarify a few points here:
The ownership of full automatic firearms at the Federal level has never been banned a registration program was enacted in 1934 requireing their registration and the payment of a $200 fee. This was a defacto ban for many since $200 was a lot of money then. There are approximately 200,000 registered machine guns in the USA.
There was a grace period for a couple of months which allowed unregistered machine guns (primarily WW II vet bringbacks to be registered in 1968.
The manufacture and sale of NEW machine guns to the public was prohibited in 1986 in one of the few pieces of idiotic legislation enacted during Reagans tenure. Since demand due to this exceeds supply the prices on registered machine guns has rocketed ever since. A run of the mill Thompson will cost you about $15000 for example.
This is a "in a nutshell" view of the situation.
BTW: NO registered machine gun has EVER been used in a crime at any time.
Jim

 

[Ty]

Sorry Salmoneye...I won't reply to anymore of your posts. You are obviously much smarter than me and pretty much everybody else in this thread (and unable to give anyone the benefit of the doubt), so I'll defer to your superior intellect. I'm much too ignorant and undeserving of participation in this thread since you are involved.

I apologize for my uninformed and ingorant opinions, and I will not get in your way ever again.

 

[Guest]

BTW: NO registered machine gun has EVER been used in a crime at any time.

If this is true, that's exactly the point. The whole reason I started this thread basically ends up right there. As was said, laws are basically for those of us with a concience. Drug runners, military gorillas, ect. use these weapons for killing people. Just from the look of them the government decided to ban them.

I own a Saiga 12 this is a known fact around the board. Granted I could have stated that again in the beginning of my post. The Saiga12 did not exist before the ban so I can not modify it. No mags existed, no grips existed, no receiver, no gun! I do know the laws and I know this issue inside out. Since the Saiga has a box mag I can not put a pistol grip on it. If I did it would be banned because it has 2 of the "bad" features. If I were to take a mag from a USAS 12 and fit it to my gun it would no longer fit the USAS12 so the ATF says that is a new mag and is outlawed. Same for adding to a saiga12 mag. I am very active in keeping people informed of the ban and fighting make sure it dies.

Gordon, I read through the 4+ however many pages of your post there are. Actually got me interested in buying a Saiga. And there are pictures of Saigas out there with pistol grips, laser sites, ect. I've seen a few. I'm not saying you're wrong, you can't buy them and attach them to your firearm legally, just that there are Saigas out there with that on them.
I'd like to know, too, where to go and what to do to help support the end of the ban. If you would post some information in addition to the AWB site, that would be very helpful. I don't think I'm the only one I'm speaking for either.
Thanks