I have had one I hunted ducks with in AR for 3 years and the only two FTF I had occur was when I had too much lube on it and temps were 10 degrees. I took it apart and simply wiped everything off with a paper towel and it went back to being 100% reliable on an equally cold morning.

I added weight to mine by drilling and impaling three 1/2 ounce round weights onto the magazine plug (glued in place afterwards) which put the weight more forward which is what I wanted while duck hunting.

Don't know about "best designed" because I am not an expert on semi auto designs although have owned many including the SX1. However, I would say that I think the design although beholding to the 1100, is made better by the lack of a recoil spring in buttstock and polished steel parts internally. The internal parts also appear to be much more robust than those of the Rem 1100.

As you have stated and displayed in your post; mine has always been a very solid value and performer. I believe Randy said that it and the Mossberg SA20, are made by the same company in Turkey and he really liked the Mossberg in a comparison with other 20 gauge semi autos.

 

I have Tri Star semi autos in 12 and 20 ga. Best gun on the market at the price point offered. You'll need to shoot several boxes of high powered loads through the 20ga to break it in however before reliable operation with 7/8 oz loads.

 

Ever? Not sure but it is a dang nice gun. You need to dump the black tactical and get a Bronze with nice wood and a blued barrel. You like nice wood and blued guns so get with the program. Give the kid the cheap one and get yourself some champagne wood on a beer budget. The 20 gage hits the sweet spot for me for pheasants and "looks like a gun should look."

 

How does the Tristar Viper G-2 compare with the Weatherby Deluxe SA-08? The Weatherby costs a bit more (roughly $100 I think).

 

The Tristar and it's Mossey twin are made but Armsan. Not sure who makes the Weatherby but actions are different. Weatherby design requires a light and a heavy piston to cycle different loads whereas the Tristar design is self compensating and operates over a broader range of loads without adjustment. Randy Wakeman has trigger time with both and can chime in more as he has done on other threads. He has more preference now for the Mossey over the Weatherby but to my knowledge has not shot the twin brother Tristar.

 

I've had one of the Tristar 12 gauge synthetic stocked sporting models ( the red one) for over three years and it has been absolutely bulletproof. Mine has well over eight thousand rds through it and never has had a single failure to feed or fire. I have ran it over two thousand rds without cleaning it just to see if it would quit and it didn't. I've used light loads, heavy loads, reloads and it doesn't care just keeps going bang. It's now one of my loaner guns and it still see's a lot of use. For the money you can't beat it

 

How does the Tristar Viper G-2 compare with the Weatherby Deluxe SA-08? The Weatherby costs a bit more (roughly $100 I think).

I have hunted with a Weatherby for over 5 years. It has been excellent, patterns great with lead and steel. Weatherby people are easy to talk with and sent me shims free. They were offered after I purchased the gun. The SA-08 uses Win/Moss choke tubes.
I also shoot Yildiz auto, the A71, which is the same type action as the Viper. I like it too. The actions are very different but the Weatherby is easier to disassemble and clean and has a better trigger. A!so Weatherby is an American Company.
BTW, the 28 gauge SA-08 uses an action like the Viper. It is the only one that does.
ATA makes the SA-08 to Weatherby specs. It is basically an ATA CY.

 

I usually post on the Turkish or small gauge sections but My experience is exactly like Yours Super X. I have a G2 28 ga and the durn thing runs like a clock. the stock dimensions fit Me to a T, mine is a plain wood stock but has a decent stain on it and doesn't look cheep. ,the checkering is excellent and I bet I can take it apart to clean including the trigger group in 90 seconds. The simplicity of design blows Me away. I'm soon to be 65 spent My whole life with Remingtons or Winchesters. After several years of eye problems this little gun has Me like a kid on Christmas. The next stop for Me is one in .410.

 

Reading a bit more of the Tristar manuals, my el cheapie NWTF appears to actually be a Raptor, not the more deluxe Viper G2 Model.

But whatever the model, the NWTF dinner guns, of which there seem to be a lot of for sale as nearly new used guns, have these features:

1. Gas piston has permanent piston ring in a slot, no separate rubber O ring.

2. Model 1100 Remington type barrel. The bolt engages a slot in the extension, the ejector is a bump on the rear, there's a sleeve for the gas piston under the barrel, and two gas ports.

3. On the aluminum mag tube, after the gas piston is a nylon or some other kind of black plastic recoil buffer, that has groved indentations molded on the outside. Then comes an aluminum holder for the milled steel action bar slide, which looks like Ithaca SHOULD have used on a Model 51 because it's substantial milled steel. That action bar engages the simplest bolt I've ever seen in a shotgun, that's returned by a big stainless steel spring in front on the magazine tube.

4. To disassemble the gun, remove the simple, all steel mag tube cap, remove fore-end, remove barrel, pull bolt handle out (on the notch), and the entire shebang of gas piston, recoil buffer, action bar holder, action bar, bolt, and front return spring just slide off. It's even easier than an 870 to take down.

5. The government ought to pass a law every bolt be made this simple or pay a hundred dollar fine.

One pin that just slides out, releases the firing pin and spring, and then then bolt just tilts out. The firing pin doubles as a punch to push out the one pin securing the trigger assembly. This just has to be the ultimately simple design for a gas autoloader. The only plastic part is that round recoil buffer around the gas tube.

For those who own fancier models, what is the difference?

And what Turkish factory makes these?

Whoever designed this was a genius, and deserves more than they paid her.

(A man, surely would have made it more complicated because he thought it should be)

 

Super X 1, that Raptor is made by Kral. It's not near the quality the Viper G2 or the Yildiz A71 is.
They had a propensity for throwing the charging handle out at one time. Not even in the ballpark with the Viper G2 or SA-08 for fit and finish. The Raptor is bottom of the line for Tristar. Not sure why you think the design is so great it been around for years. At least 3 Turkish makers use it.

It should be sevicable but I wouldn't go far without a backup. It's worth about what you paid. Wal-Mart's everyday Price is under $300. Good Luck.

 

My Turkey Raptor Viper whatever it may be, seems so simple, the entire gun could be assembled by unskilled laborers in a barn, from parts contracted out to small machine and injection molding shops, all except for the barrel.

As for the bolt handle flying out, this gun solves a problem common to the SX1, M1100, and every other gas semi auto by using a lump on the bolt handle, and a slot in the bolt, to retain it. The others use a ball detent inside the bolt. It's the only part I had to refer to YouTube on how to remove, because it's soooo snug in the bolt. No doubt the lump is made bigger on the bolt handle because the earlier models sometimes flew out.

My gun, is finished plain.

But add money, and you could finish the thing into a Super X One grade shotgun.

 

C'mon Super X you didn't even know what you have or who makes it. Have you even shot it?

Pig in a poke? :lol:

 

Before I bought my Viper G2, I spoke with Tristar and they recommended the Viper over their Raptor as being a "better quality" and more robust so better for the duck hunting I was going to be doing.

Although I am sure the Raptor works just fine, I think they should know their products best.

 

I have written about my TriStar Raptor several times before, and it now has over 70,000 rounds through it, and still "0" problems! It has never failed to go bang when I pulled the trigger, and from the mildest 1 oz. load to the heaviest 3" magnum loads, it has NEVER failed!

I called TriStar in Kansas and asked them about the differences between the Raptor and Viper, and they said the Viper was basically the same gun, but with "pretty wood and better finishes, plus lighter weight".

The overall design is plain and simple, and it's built rock solid and I would imagine it to be going for a very long time. My Raptor has performed far better than my Remington 1100 or 11/87 and is one of my favorite gas operated semi-auto 12 ga. shotguns.

One of these days in the very near future, I will have a Viper in 20 ga. or 28 ga. and sooner or later a 410 for busting bunnies.

 

Tristar Viper best designed affordable gas semi auto ever?

What dollar amount do you deem affordable?

 

Tristar Viper best designed affordable gas semi auto ever?

What dollar amount do you deem affordable?

The standard Bill Ruger used was a week's pay for an ordinary working man.

Almost seventy years later, you can still walk into any gun shop and buy a Ruger Standard .22 Auto for about three hundred and some dollars, or a Ruger All American high powered rifle, or a Ruger LCR9.

For about the same money you can buy yourself or your kid a brand new Remington 870, but the Mossberg 500 is always just a bit cheaper.

Double that to six hundred and some dollars for the cheapest Remington or Beretta gas autoloader shotgun with an injection molded stock and fore-end, and a few dollars less for the Mossberg.

Or for three hundred and up, there's the Tri-Star Raptor and for more money you get a Viper at at six hundred and some you get the fanciest Viper G2 with the prettiest Turkish walnut you can imagine and a bronze action.

If our friends at Retay could get their super dooper inertia bolt semi auto shotgun on every gun shop rack and call it the Black Maria, they might do good battle with the Raptors and Vipers from Tristar in the $300 and up price range.

Tristar has got there furstest with the mostest, at the leastest price, though.

And the gas semi kicks the customer less than any other type of three hundred dollar and up repeating shotgun.

In the long run, all three hundred dollar and up repeating shotguns should be variations of the Raptor-Viper the same as all those Glocks by many brand names lined up under the pistol case.

 

I can't imagine your excitement when you discover the Hatfield.

 

That one will go two full pages, on his own.

 

C'mon Super X you didn't even know what you have or who makes it. Have you even shot it?

Pig in a poke? :lol:

He's definitely shot it. I sold him the gun and I was there when he first shot it.

What you don't understand about SuperXOne is that he absolutely loves shotguns . . . any shotgun . . . and gets a big kick out of learning about AND SHOOTING guns he hasn't tried before. He's fortunate enough to have the means to buy a gun for no other reason than he's curious about it or because it speaks to him on some level at the moment.

I can't tell you how many times he came into my pawnshop, looked at some turd of a shotgun and laugh his head off at the design or manufacturing of the thing. As often as not he'd pull out his wallet. Next thing you know he'd have the gun out at the gun club to shoot a couple of rounds of skeet with it. If he liked it he might keep it. Otherwise he or his son would sell the thing . . . sometimes right at the range that first night.

I'll never forget the time I sold SuperXone a Remington 887 pump gun. We both thought the gun was a ridiculous POS but he bought it anyway. When he brought it to the range he spent an entire round pointing out all the cheezy/cheap things about the gun to anyone who would listen. He was laughing his a** off the entire time. He was absolutely joyous about Remington's folly.

So, no, SuperXOne didn't do his research before buying this gun. It was a case of "What's that? Wow, that's cheap! How good could it be? Let's find out . . . " Is that a bad thing?

 

No, his money and time. But to make the case the for a low end $300 Turkish import as wait for it ........ "best affordable gas semi auto ever?" is far beyond the pale. Or how about every shotgun should be made with a bolt this simple or pay a $100 tax. How about "every $300 and up shotgun should be made with the Raptor/Viper action"....really?

Based on what, it's easy to take apart?

Most of us know he is full of hot air but.....
You have to remember there are folks who come on these forums looking for reliable information to make decisions they may not be capable of making on their own.

It's probably best to temper the hyperbole.

That is why I have spent some time on this thread trying to correct the record.

 

I can't imagine your excitement when you discover the Hatfield.

This site really does need a like or thumbs up button. Dat funny!

 

This type of design is used in Fabarm too. A twin rail carrier with a bushing to slide on mag tube powered by a piston carring the bolt on a platform in the action. A spring on mag tube to return everything home. Only Fabarm finishes and plates everything nice and puts on decent wood too but at 2-3x the cost of a Bronze. I have two fabarms and my last new gun purchase was a Waterfowler. I might get a 28 gage Bronze but for me the 28 gage should be an over and under or a s x s. It's a "gentleman's gun" and not your basic work horse.

 

No, his money and time. But to make the case the for a low end $300 Turkish import as wait for it ........ "best affordable gas semi auto ever?" is far beyond the pale. Or how about every shotgun should be made with a bolt this simple or pay a $100 tax. How about "every $300 and up shotgun should be made with the Raptor/Viper action"....really?

Based on what, it's easy to take apart?

Most of us know he is full of hot air but.....
You have to remember there are folks who come on these forums looking for reliable information to make decisions they may not be capable of making on their own.

It's probably best to temper the hyperbole.

That is why I have spent some time on this thread trying to correct the record.

My old dead, machinist, inventor, manufacturer, millionaire friend Jack was always very careful to say that he was not the only manufacturer of wire marker balls in the world.

But every wire marker ball in the entire world, is basically the same gadget Jack invented one day in 1969.

His son owns the name of the company that still makes them.

It's about the same as saying Glock does not make the only black plastic automatic pistol, only the Original Glocks.

As Jack used to say, if you build a better mousetrap, everybody else will eventually build your gadget.

But if you invent the simplest windproof cigarette lighter, eventually everybody else will copy your Zippo.

A gas operated semi automatic shotgun works by venting gas from the barrel to operate the bolt.

Take apart a Tristar Viper and put all the parts on a table.

You will need no tools, once you figure out you need to use a shotgun shell to pry out the bolt handle.

Now look at all those parts, and make even one, simpler to make.

Even the firing pin, is held in by one, simple pin that pops out, so that the bolt that locks in a milled recess in the barrel, just swivels out.

The stock just bolts to the frame. Everything that makes the gun work is ahead of the stock, so the stock can be shimmed any way you'd like, or even made as a pistol grip.

A Viper is the Zippo of gas operated semi auto shotguns.

If you were sitting down to make a gas operated semi auto shotgun to sell at a profit, you'd make some kind of Viper copy.

 

That one will go two full pages, on his own.

The Hatfield is a Walmart Grade SX1 type gas auto made in Turkey.

I have real Super X Ones galore, and don't care to own a Walmart version.

But I'm amazed at the incredibly brilliant design simplicity of my Viper.

The SX1 has design faults.

It was so expensive to make the SX1 nearly bankrupted Winchester, is the biggest one.

The next fault the SX1 shares with the Hatfield and all other copies, is that the bolt return spring is inside the stock, so if the maker wants to put a bolt recoil buffer on the gun it has to be behind the bolt.

All the working parts of a Viper are ahead of the stock, and come out the front of the gun.

Simple is good.

 

You're far from done