The Turkish guns you mention are generally thought of by experienced shooters as "turkeys." Look for a quality used gun instead.

 

I would definitely stay away from the Stoeger. Haven't heard enough about the other to give a recommendation one way or the other.

For about $200 more than what the guns you mentioned would cost, you could get into a CZ (made by Huglu). While some people pooh-pooh them as sub-par quality, the vast majority of them appear to be wearing "B-colored" glasses, as they typically have not handled or shot one. There is a thread in the Huglu forum chronicling a 27K round Canvasback that might interest you.

 

My Mossberg Silver Reserve II was made in Turkey. I like it. I bought it as an entry level O/U for my 12 y.o. daughter when she started shooting trap

 

I get the different points of view, but at the end of the day I don't think a better gun will make you a better shot. If it's a beginner gun then you expect that it's only a short term thing anyway and if the gun lasts longer then it's a bonus. I haven't seen Mossbergs or Huglus here in Australia unless they go by different names outside of the US (which is sometimes the case).

 

I get the different points of view, but at the end of the day I don't think a better gun will make you a better shot. If it's a beginner gun then you expect that it's only a short term thing anyway and if the gun lasts longer then it's a bonus. I haven't seen Mossbergs or Huglus here in Australia unless they go by different names outside of the US (which is sometimes the case).

Have to disagree with you on this. I have watched first hand someone improve scores and consistency after purchasing a better gun.

 

Are they shooting better because the gun is of higher quality? Or is it because the gun has a better fit.

 

I get the different points of view, but at the end of the day I don't think a better gun will make you a better shot. If it's a beginner gun then you expect that it's only a short term thing anyway and if the gun lasts longer then it's a bonus. I haven't seen Mossbergs or Huglus here in Australia unless they go by different names outside of the US (which is sometimes the case).

Beginning at what? If it's target shooting then save your money. I bought a turk when. I was a beginner. It had pretty wood for a cheapo. I learned how to take down, clean, grease. Was good for learning the mount and swing in the den. For shooting, not so much. Too much recoil meant developing a flinch. Ejector malfunctioned within a month. Broken firing pin within three. Wouldn't buy another, not even for a beginner's field use.

 

I believe the Mossberg gun is made by Kahn. The Stoeger may or may not be Turkish; my buddies 20ga says 'product of Brazil' on it. The Webley guns seem to be getting good reviews on the web. The biggest thing with out-sourced products is how much care the company putting there name on it put into it. The more the umbrella company cares about the product the better quality they will require from a supplier. If money is the main focus well then....Welcome to Walmart :lol: :roll:

 

I agree with Windowwasher. I like my SR II. It is made by Khan under a new contract with Mossberg requiring better quality.

Stoeger semis and pumps are made in Turkey. The Stoeger doubles are made in Brazil. I have had good luck with Stoeger semis. Bought three for me and my sons. Not a problem with either of them over a 5 year period.

 

Well, I've heard that even Beretta outsource manufacturing to Turkey. I'm sure they'd have pretty stringent QC in place being one of the biggest and best known names in firearms. I know ATA make a 686 copy and I wouldn't be surprised if Beretta commissions them to make their 686's. It's a damn fine copy from all reports.

 

Well, I've heard that even Beretta outsource manufacturing to Turkey. I'm sure they'd have pretty stringent QC in place being one of the biggest and best known names in firearms. I know ATA make a 686 copy and I wouldn't be surprised if Beretta commissions them to make their 686's. It's a damn fine copy from all reports.

If that were the case, then yes, the QC would be stringent and quality of parts much higher than the "entry level" Turkish gun. I've had an entry level Turkish gun and a 686 and there is no comparison, not even a little bit. If you gave Kolar ~$500 to build you a gun, it wouldn't be the Max Skeet, even though they are capable of building one with that level of refinement.

I believe that some may luck up and get a good gun off the line. Others, like me will get lemons. It didn't even get me through a month w/out acting up. But, what can you expect for a cheap gun? If I could start over, and wasn't in a huge rush to buy, I would've bought a used B gun for a little more. If I didn't stick with shooting or didn't like it, I could sell it for as much as I bought it for. Good luck.

 

Are they shooting better because the gun is of higher quality? Or is it because the gun has a better fit.

Both...

 

I mean, as an example, some of the Turkish mades (like ATA and Stoeger) retail for between $1000 - $1500 AUD ($1 AUD = $0.90 USD) which, although being considered entry level, is getting up there in price. They also come with pretty good warranties in some instances - up to 5 years or more.

 

Very clearly, you didn't post your question with an open mind; therefore, I suggest you go out and buy whatever you think you want. Experience is the best teacher. Come back in a year and let us know how it is going.

 

Very clearly, you didn't post your question with an open mind; therefore, I suggest you go out and buy whatever you think you want. Experience is the best teacher. Come back in a year and let us know how it is going.

Just playing devil's advocate is all. If experience is the best teacher then please share your experiences. That's all I'm asking.

 

Wegnation, all Turk shotguns are not crap. I know this because I own a CZ Upland Ultralight (made by Huglu) and it has been great. Check out the Yildiz or Huglu forums and you will find plenty of folks who own B-guns and Turks alike. That being said I don't know much about the brands that you mention. My hunting buddy uses a Stoeger for waterfowl, and he has been very happy with it. From what I understand it does not do well with light loads but he does not care as it is a duck gun. The fit/finish is not great on it, but not as bad as some. A used B-gun would be a great option, but I bet they are few and far between in Australia. If Stoegers are bringing 1k+ I can only imagine what B-guns are bringing. Also I can't say for sure that an "American" Stoeger is going to be the same as one exported to Australia. The ones we get are a little rough, but they are meant to fill a lower price point. Brownings and Berettas are superior firearms and designed to last a 2 lifetimes, but if your budget dictates Turk or nothing, get a Turk.

 

By the way, what type of shooting are you planning on doing? What type of action are you looking for?

 

Mostly clays and possibly real birds (ducks). It would need to be a break open o/u (or as we call them - under/overs). I know, we're backwards down here.

 

Excuse my ignorance here, but "B-gun" is not a term I'm familiar with. Is it like B grade as opposed to A grade?

 

Lol, no. You will see the term "B-gun" a lot in these forums. Its just short-hand for Browning, Beretta, or Benelli. You know, the guns that everyone loves but not everyone can afford

 

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Wegnation

You haven,t given a price range you are budgeting for, but from my experience in OZ, for a beginners gun you would be better to save a bit and grab your son a Franchi Pheonix which will have the Beretta forever service deal. Alternatively you will pick up a nice new LANBER for similar money if you shop around.

I would also consider looking around gun clubs for a used Browning, Beretta or Miroku. All will be excellent guns and have service backup in Australia from the importers which you may not get from the Turkish guns.
Have a browse through http://www.usedguns.com.au/ There may be some good deals not far from your home base.

 

The price range is around $750 AUD ($675 USD). Now, bear in mind that we pay 30%-40% more than the rest of the world for EVERYTHING so our $750 probably buys a lot less than your $675. The Franchis, Lanbers, and Mirokus retail for around $1500-$1700. Beretta's start at around $2200. You won't pickup a used b-gun here for less than $1800 in pretty ordinary condition, unless it's falling apart. Even my used Lanber 97EST was $1100. The Webley & Scott 900 is looking pretty good at the moment for $800 new.

 

For about $200 more than what the guns you mentioned would cost, you could get into a CZ (made by Huglu). While some people pooh-pooh them as sub-par quality, the vast majority of them appear to be wearing "B-colored" glasses, as they typically have not handled or shot one. There is a thread in the Huglu forum chronicling a 27K round Canvasback that might interest you.

I'll second that. The CZ guns seem to be quite well made.

 

I'm not sure that the Huglu brand is available here in oz. I haven't seen any around anywhere (unless they bring them in under a different name). I have emailed Huglu and am awaiting a response.