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hello, have a beretta silver pigeon 2, it has 2 beads on the rail, one midway and one at the tip. My question is, what is the proper lineup of these 2 sights, as i look down the rail?

a) tip bead on top of the midway bead? like this:

O
o

b) or beads covering eachother? midway bead superimposed on the tip bead

thx in advance
 

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I guess the simple answer is that if the beads are superimposed over each other, the gun will shoot relatively flat. The more space you see between the beads, the higher the higher it will shoot.
Now the more non-simple answer is that there are a lot of variables such as gun mount, your stance, type of ammo, type of gun and where the gun shoots if it were in a vise and you sighted down the barrel (like a rifle).
It all comes down to gun fit and what you want to shoot.
I like my gun to shoot 50/50. Some trap shooters like theirs to shoot 60/40 or even higher.
 

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From what I understand, sight picture is to be simuliar to a figure eight. So, more like this 8...but to tell you the truth, I never look at my beads, only my target.

Bob
 

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Yeah, what Claybuster said.

Start with the beads in a figure-8 alignment and you should be somewhere close. Later you may need to change that depending on how the stock fits you, how you like for the gun to shoot, and little idiosyncrasies in the individual gun.
 

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The general rule is if the beads are aligned the gun is SUPPOSE to shoot with 50% of the pattern above the point of aim and 50% below, ie 50/50, this is often referred to as a flat shooting gun. With the beads aligned one on top of the other to form a snowman or figure 8 the gun is suppose to shoot 60/40. If you can see space between the beads the gun should shoot higher. For your future reference the "rail" is called a "rib". If there are open spaces between the rib and barrel it is a "ventilated rib" if not it is a solid rib.

As Claybuster wrote there are variables that may not make the above true for your gun, as shot by you or as the gun was made. The 2 barrels are suppose to shoot to the same place at about 20 to 30 yards. With some dedicated American trap doubles guns the under barrel shoots higher.

Shoot some patterns free hand like your are shooting clays.

I suggest using your cylinder, skeet choke 20 yards.

Your IC and Mod at 30 yards.

Your IM and Full at 40 yards.
 

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The figure eight thing does not mean that the gun will shoot 50/50 (or flat). I have one gun that shoots 90% high and another that shoots 50% high and I see a figure eight on both guns. Using two beads on the rib is benificial to those who shoot games with a mounted gun, such as trap or skeet. The two beads allow you to know that you consistantly mount the gun the same way each time. If your normal mount allows you to see a figure eight and your next mount has you seeing space between the beads, then you know your mount was not correct or consistant. It is also true that if you normally see a figure eight, then mounting in such a way that you see space between the beads, your gun will shoot higher. If shooting trap and if you want the gun to shoot higher, this is probably the condition that will work best. However.... do not try to acheive it by manipulating your mount or contorting your head. You need to pad up (raise) the comb in order to see some space between the beads, thus allowing you to consistantly mount the gun.
 

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nat2zxd said:
hello, have a beretta silver pigeon 2, it has 2 beads on the rail, one midway and one at the tip. My question is, what is the proper lineup of these 2 sights, as i look down the rail?

a) tip bead on top of the midway bead? like this:

O
o

b) or beads covering eachother? midway bead superimposed on the tip bead

thx in advance
this 8 or maybe top circle halved
 

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mine when lined up properly....looks like one bead!
Guess it really depends on how the gun fits? :?
 

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wb said:
mine when lined up properly....looks like one bead!
Guess it really depends on how the gun fits? :?
No it dont depend on how the gun fits , one bead works , I would say see some of the front bead for perfection fit and Clean um up :lol:

Used one bead line up for years ,before I found out , just raise the stock a little to just see the front one .

Works :wink:
 

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Well i have about the same question... i have ben shooting a SBE II all fall hunting and sporting clays... With the beads lined up just looking like one bead. I have recetly got in the markit for a o/u And the front runer is the Browing Cynergy sporting. And the beads form a perfict 8. I have been shooting shotguns for and sporting clays for about 5 years now. and with every shotgun i have ever shot i had sight picture like described erlyer... Flat like the horizon, with the bead sitting there. I geuss what i am asking is will the figer 8 change my shooting much sence i am used to shooting overlaped beads for years. It has just become natral tendetcy to line them up.
Thanks and glad to be here at SGW
B7R
 

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Bead alignment is the result of primarily two things, how well the gun fits an individual shooter and the shooting form (primarily the stance and gun mount) used by that shooter.

Fit: One variable is the distance between the eye and the cheekbone. Those with a greater distance will require a stock with a greater drop at the comb dimension.

Another variable is the width of the face. Shooters with wider faces are likely to require a stock with cast, "off" for right-handed shooters and "on" for left handed shooters.

Shooting form: There are correct shooting forms for all types (disciplines) of shooting. Shooting form consists of stance, body posture, weight distribution and gun mount.

For example, trap shooters should mount their guns with the heel of the stock even with the top of their shoulder. Obviously the stock must fit the individual shooter to make this practical. Other shooting disciplines recommend a slightly (but only slightly) lower gun mount. In no case should the heel of the stock be below the collar bone.

Of all the stock dimensions (cast, drops at the comb and heel, length and pitch), drop at the comb and cast are the most important. They determine the location of the eye relative to the gun's rib. With the eye acting like the rear sight on a rifle, its placement will determine where the gun will shoot relative to its point of aim.

Of equal importance is what happens during swings to targets. When the head moves relative to the rib during swings, the pattern will move in the same direction. Both shooting form and how well the gun fits will influence this.

Some guns have combs that are parallel (or nearly parallel) with the rib. They are usually Monte Carlo stocks and are the ones with a notch removed at the rear of the comb. The popularity of this style stock is growing because a sloppy gun mount will not change the eye's height relative to the gun's comb and they often fit shooters with longer or even average length necks.

Other guns have what is commonly referred to as field stocks.
These stocks are are straight from the front of the comb to the heel. Some say they are better for mounting the gun from a low-gun position but many are changing to Monte Carlo stocks to achieve consistent gun-mount eye positions (relative to the rib.)

As was said above, where you want your gun to shoot will depend on the direction your targets are flying. If they are rising like trap targets, you will probably want your gun to shoot higher, more so than when shooting skeet with targets that do not rise as quickly.

If you shoot sporting clays or hunt with the gun, you will probably want it to shoot flat, following a quick gun mount. To be able to do that, your gun must fit you and your shooting form must be correct and consistent. You should not have to contort your body to align your eye with the rib. It should also occur naturally, without thinking.

http://stockfitting.virtualave.net
 

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Go to the butcher, get some wrapping paper from him, tape it up to something, mark the center with a magic marker, line the beads up like an 8, put the front bead on the mark, pull the trigger and see where the pattern centers.

Do it a couple times (with a clean target!) to make sure you didn't flinch! :D

Copterdrvr
 

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good question nat2zxd

not to be a smarta$$ do clayshooters really ever see the beads, when shootign moving objects

again not trying to be funny i never remember seeing my beads

except when pattering the gun

hell i dot see the big viz dot on my 391

i look at it this way (and please correct me if im worng)

a shotgun is pointed (and if all things fit right) you point it not aim

its kinda like throwing a ball (the left fielder doesnt aim the ball to the shortstop he throws it) granted he points his body at the target gets his feet aligned and wham lets a nice one hopper right on the bag

I totally understand his question i do but if you can see the beads too clearly then target is not being seen

IMHO

JD

again im not trying to start anything here
 

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RolexDr. said:
a shotgun is pointed (and if all things fit right) you point it not aim
Well I guess the question I was asking is. What should the beads look like to know if it fits when you pick it up in the store. Or would there be any difference from looking at a o of overlapping beads to a 8 of stacked beads.

Thanks
B7R
 

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RolexDr. said:
B7R

i was not critizing i was asking

i was assuming you ment at fit time not really shooting

sorry if i stepped on toes

JD
No you did not stepp on my toes. I was just asking, What should the beads look like when i look at them, to know if the shotgun fits? I geuss that is as simple as i can put it. I meen everything on the gun feals fine (as far as i know, from my small experance. nothing feals strange) exept the beads look like an 8 insted of a o that i have ben acustumed to from shooting other guns with a mid bead. Or is that small of a difrenc not that big a deal, senc it was said erlyer that a 8 shaped bead shoots a 60/40 patern which is just sligetly higher than a, o looking bead that shoots 50/50 patern.
B7R
 

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B7R,

Generally speaking, they should look a figure eight or a slightly overlapping figure eight.

That's the short answer.

The long answer involves patterning the gun to see how the point of aim (POA) relates to the point of impact (POI), understanding what POI works for your shooting style and the game your are shooting, and personal preference.

Trap shooters typically want a higher POI so they have usually end up with some space between the beads. Skeet shooter like anything from a flat shooting gun to one that shoot a little high. Sporting Clays shooters typically like flat shooting guns.

Regardless, a trip to the patterning plate or board should be taken to learn where your gun shoots and to see what changes you might want to make in comb height.

Scott
 

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Ok question answered... I will mostly be shooting SC... but i am not to woryed about it being a 8 now, as long as it will not be WAY Diffrent than my Benelli I hunt with that completly overlaps.... I may even like it better. I know the best way to try it out is to find a gun like the one i am looking for at a range and ask to try it out and shoot it. which is what i need to do before throwing down my saved up $ on a new shotgun.
Thanks
B7R
 
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