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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who all thinks/feels this is a very IMPORTANT part of being successful when shooting?
I know in my case it's the main reason in getting that X vs a 0. And to go along with that L/R targets give me trouble in beating my eyes and getting them on the front edge of the clay(especially when I haven't been able to shoot regularly)
I work on finding that sweet spot on how much in front of the trap I need my soft focus to be to help with not getting beat and some days it takes longer than others to find it.

Have any others found this in your shooting experiences? Or something similar?
Shoot um up!! :)
The Eyes Have It
 

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I believe in doing a lot of eye exercises. I have Phil Kiner's eye exercise DVD. I do Brockstring and Joe Frasca's near/far exercises. I use a box-a-ball, and I do other exercises as well.
Randy
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you have a link to them? I do have Phil Kiner's Vid.
 

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IF there is such a thing as a 'secret' to shooting well it is how to use your eyes. However the 'secret' includes hard work, discipline and confidence in your hand eye coordination.

So yes I agree that you must use your eyes correctly, but no I don't do it 100% of the time. I am and have been working on it. That is my goal.
 
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I have been working on my gun mount so I can start from a low gun mount when calling for the bird. I pick up the bird much better and focus on the clay earlier when my head is off the gun, especially on crossing targets. It actually slows everything down for me, quite the opposite of what I previously thought, In the past, I would only call for a bird with gun low when the clay took a long time to reach the break point. How many of you shoot gun down? The majority of the recreational shooters I see are pre mounted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I shoot low for everything-but the draw length depends on the target. But your timing also factors in;)
 

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Hopper - I have spent the last 25 years trying to figure out what should be done with the eyes in shotgunning. :)

I would say the article you tried to link to is a waste of time except for the quote from Anthony Matarese near the end, that lack of confidence makes you notice the gap, and then you are shooting in the past. But wait, what's wrong with noticing the gap, you ask. What's all that talk about "sight pictures?"

For years I have suspected that there is a grand conspiracy among the elite coaches to mislead people on what they should do with their eyes so they will have to come buy lessons to learn. But rare moments of candor like Anthony's slip out from time to time.

DogDay - I shoot clays mostly fully shouldered but usually with my head off the stock, to eliminate clothing hang-ups, etc.

However, I regret that I don't practice an Olympic skeet style of mount and shoot more when I am trying to shoot wild pheasants on a windy day. :)

If you cannot stand in the station with your gun over in the rack, watch the targets and see all the "sight pictures" you need to see to break them, you are doing it wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
On a couple of podcasts from Wendell and a couple of others that really helped is as I'm calling pull I start a sloooooow push with my hands instead of having a dead gun. And helps me to sync up faster/better.
Work in progress :) As long as my eyes on in the front edge of the target then the X's come all by themselves as let my subconscious do the work on lead, granted don't hit everything but the X's are much more prevalent
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My hold point is about halfway to my break zone then will adjust it a tad closer or farther out if I feel the need to. All I shoot is Sporting and 5 Stand as Fitasc isn't offered nearby.
 

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I think the fact that you "work on finding that sweet spot on how much in front of the trap" might be causing you a problem. You working from the wrong end.

Instead of moving out in front of the trap, figure how far you need to hold back from your planned break point in order to give you adequate time to get good focus on the target, swing, and break the target at or before your planned break point.
 

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When shooting sporting my eyes are approximately 50% between my hold point and the trap, unless the shot demands I'm holding in a tight position that resembles station 2 or 3 on a skeet field. Then my eyes are about at 20% off the barrel so I don't get beat and be forced to pull through. I want to make the choice to stay in front, or let it get ahead of me, and without good eye placement I lose that option.

Folks say to put your eyes where you first pick up the target, but I figure that if I can focus on it at the 50% point it saves me doing additional math and extra decision making at every station.
 

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Your peripheral vision is important, as it is easier to pick up movement in your peripheral vision than it is when you are trying to SEE the target. Eye hold slightly in front of where the target is first visible, quiet eyes, move on the flash, beachball to pea and pull the trigger where you see the target the best. If you miss, look harder at the pea the next time.

If you are doing everything else correct, most misses are caused by not being specific about where you see the pea on the target. Or possibly seeing the pea but not at the right place on the target. Not every target is broken by seeing the leading edge.
 

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I believe the rotational movement of your hip's goes in concert with the hard focus on the lead-edge of the target ! If those (2) are not in rhythm with each other , then the line of
the target gets lost along with your forward allowance ! Being relaxed as the gun comes up to the shoulder will keep the shoulder mussels less tense , allowing the shoulder pocket
to be more open for the mount !
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Your peripheral vision is important, as it is easier to pick up movement in your peripheral vision than it is when you are trying to SEE the target. Eye hold slightly in front of where the target is first visible, quiet eyes, move on the flash, beachball to pea and pull the trigger where you see the target the best. If you miss, look harder at the pea the next time.

If you are doing everything else correct, most misses are caused by not being specific about where you see the pea on the target. Or possibly seeing the pea but not at the right place on the target. Not every target is broken by seeing the leading edge.
With these ole eyes seeing the P is a stretch ;) but yes I use a clock face per say on what time I need to look at
 
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On a couple of podcasts from Wendell and a couple of others that really helped is as I'm calling pull I start a sloooooow push with my hands instead of having a dead gun. And helps me to sync up faster/better.
Work in progress :) As long as my eyes on in the front edge of the target then the X's come all by themselves as let my subconscious do the work on lead, granted don't hit everything but the X's are much more prevalent
"as I'm calling pull I start a sloooooow push with my hands instead of having a dead gun. And helps me to sync up faster/better." Huge.

The move is hardly noticeable by fellow shooters as the body just barely begins to unwind and I do this on or off the shoulder with eyes relaxed just off the trap if I can see the trap. It works but it's also discipline and hard to maintain during a 100 round NSCA event but it really helps and especially if your hold point is 1/2 way out from your first tgt. visual to your breakpoint. It takes consistent concentration but when it's there, you hear the trapper say, "dead a pair."
 

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Hopper - I have spent the last 25 years trying to figure out what should be done with the eyes in shotgunning. :)

I would say the article you tried to link to is a waste of time except for the quote from Anthony Matarese near the end, that lack of confidence makes you notice the gap, and then you are shooting in the past. But wait, what's wrong with noticing the gap, you ask. What's all that talk about "sight pictures?"

For years I have suspected that there is a grand conspiracy among the elite coaches to mislead people on what they should do with their eyes so they will have to come buy lessons to learn. But rare moments of candor like Anthony's slip out from time to time.

DogDay - I shoot clays mostly fully shouldered but usually with my head off the stock, to eliminate clothing hang-ups, etc.

However, I regret that I don't practice an Olympic skeet style of mount and shoot more when I am trying to shoot wild pheasants on a windy day. :)

If you cannot stand in the station with your gun over in the rack, watch the targets and see all the "sight pictures" you need to see to break them, you are doing it wrong.
I find it curious that two-eyed shooting is considered de rigeur for shotgunning yet it seems that trying to do it that way is where so many shooters' problems begin and where so many articles are trying to help shooters to do it. Assuming that most folks leave something on the table with regard to using two eyes effectively, exactly how much worse could one-eyed shooting actually be? You aim at the target, you pull in front the amount needed for the appropriate lead and you shoot. What could be simpler? No mumbo-jumbo. No trying to look at the target while pointing the gun in front of it. Of course you have to know where to aim, either intuitively, subconsciously or consciously according to your skill and experience. But that is true no matter how many eyes you use. So many variables taken out of the process.
 
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