Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up a very interesting Bohemian made sxs black powder shot gun. The name on one side of the side plate is " V.Jenikove" and on the other side is "J.Wangler" . It is very ornately engraved. I`d call it `fancy`. It has `twisted barrels` . It has hunting scenes on the rear of the side plates and a dog`s head on the rearmost sides of the barrels. Id guess it was made in the mid 1800s. I`ve tried to Google it but havn`t found anything. Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
It was actually retailed by Puškař J. Wangler v. Jenikove or Büchsenmacher J. Wangler of Jenikove. But below J. Wangler is noted as being in Kutna Hora.

Snippet from a Czech hunting site:

About how hunters used their weapons, testifies records of blasting. For example, only in Vimperk Boubín forest district forest office, according to those records in the years 1661 to 1880 shot 3,431 deer, 6,533 pieces of roe deer, 191 wild pigs, a chamois, 1,355 grouse and other species of animals. Loss from it in that time wiped out 15 bears, 51 wolves, 109 features 6533 foxes and eagles 65. Data from Prague royal forests, drafted forester Ferdinand Záviš of Osenice on May 23, 1719, speaks about 919 strakách(?), 76 foxes, 64 kolčavách(Weasel?), 45 eagle, 36 Hawks and 11 kuna(Marten?), gunned down in Queens and New and pheasant. "

......

"After the Austro-Prussian war, the production of weapons spread to various places in Bohemia. In Zlonice constructed weapons Josef Miller, J. Wangler in Kutna Hora, G. Fükert in Vejprty. In southern Bohemia, Ceske Budejovice companies reached traditions F. Blahout to šumavských Stach. Later the company began to operate workshop KJ Homolka and was also known Puškařský Pfrajtner workshop, engaged in a variety of finished weapons modifications. In Prague after 1865 he founded the first modern factory for weapons J. Novotny, later court gunsmith Náchod's Prince Schaumburg-Lippe."

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Hello

Raimey,
I believe you are bang on the money with the Wangler you found only I believe it´s not J but I(gnaz). Kutna Hora is Kuttenberg and Ignaz Wangler was from there. I´ll get back when I´ve sorted out the images. He had at least one patent for a Wangler´schen Jagdgewehre.

Kind regards
Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Moose Snoot:

For a period of time, Latin based languages used I & J interchangeably. The separation between Jenikova and Kutná Hora, thru Prague, is 160 km with Jenikova on the Western border w/ Germany. So I/J Wangler could have begun in Jenikova and settled in Kutné Hoře?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
An authority on Austro-Hungarian makers, including those talented mechanics of Ferlach, provided me w/ the following from a text he is in the mist of penning:

Jan Wangler arrived in this world in 1796 and was active in Golčuv Jenikov. So if he was born in 1796, he should have had his master's sheepskin 24 years or so later. Ignac Wangler was the son of Jan Wangler and was born in 1842 so he too should have acquired his master gunmaker's sheepskin some 24 years later. Then in 1868, Ignac Wangler moved to Kutné Hoře. So that would date the piece being prior to 1868.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Hello

Really sorry but it´s going to take some time. In the meantime, here´s something to whet your appetite.


Kind regards
Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Ignez Wangler Büchsenmacher in Kuttenberg / Kutné Hoře. Lovely find Moose Snoot. I believe we can confine the maker to the father of Ignec and date it pre-1868. Jan Wangler v. Jenikove was the culprit. I am curious how the Austro-Prussian conflict affected the apprenticeship of Ignec Wangler.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
For those who fancy Gothic Architecture, Google search Kutné Hoře & see the stunning examples there.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Found another snippet from a 1980 text(Lovecké zbraně v Čechách or Hunting/Sporting Weapons in Bohemia) on Cz makers:

"Posledním z českých vystavovatelů byl Hynek (Ignác) Wangler z Kutné Hory, který vystavil lovecké ručnice, odpovídající dobrým tradicím této puškařské rodiny."

But I still hold that Hynek (Ignác) Wangler's father Jan Wangler retailed the subject piece.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Hello

If the topic of the thread is a Jan Wangler gun the following is very much off-topic. Or at least semi off-topic.

First this: on 16 March, 1882 a Büchsenmacher Franz Wangler passes at the age of 76. There is no mentioning of where he had spent his days but the obituary is from a Prague publication. This is the only mentioning of a Büchsenmacher Franz Wangler that I could find.

Now, it seems that Ignaz Wangler had a patent for a Hinterlader-Jagdgewehr approved (possibly applied for) on 8 August, 1882. I guess this is what is mentioned as the Wangler´schen Hinterlade-Jagdgewehr-System. The patent was on a shotgun where it was possible to discharge both Lefaucheux-cartridges and Lancaster-cartridges. In 1883 Ignaz Wangler had an improvement issued for one year on the above system. It is unknown to me what the improvement was about.

In 1885 (28 March) Ignaz Wangler had a new patent approved. It now becomes complicated. It is about a system where the lock(s) are somehow integrated into the stock - I would have thought they always were - and I believe it´s based, or have similarities with, on the patent mentioned earlier. There is no remaining patent and no patent drawings to be found. I´ll try to read up a bit on the scarce sources there are and see if I can make something out of it.


In 1887 Ignaz Wangler had either a new patent or an improvement of his 1885-patent approved. I like to believe that if an improvement on an earlier patent didn´t interfere with someone else´s patent it was just a matter of payment. Seems payment was due each year both for the patent itself and the improvement.

As an aside: On 18 February, 1890 a Gewehrfabrikant H. Wangler passes and on 4 May, 1890 a Büchsenmachersgattin Maria Wangler passes. Both obituaries are from Prague publications.

The last mentioning I have of Ignaz Wangler is the below image. Seems the idea is now up for grabs.


Also 1: I would appreciate images of the topic Wangler gun.
Also 2: you guys have to remember I´m working three different languages at the same time. If it comes out weird I hereby apologize. Also, weird ideas the ones mentioned above.
Also 3: Raimey, what would the difference ´tween a Lancaster cartridge and a Lefuacheux cartridge in the 1880´s have been?

Kind regards
Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Lancaster typically means shotgun cartridge & central fire ignition. Lefaucheux would have been pinfire.

Lovely sleuthing there Moose Snoot.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Hello

Raimey,
Thanks.

Below is a Google Translated article. Original from 1885.

Progress in the construction of the hunting rifle
The already well-known gunsmith Mr. I. Wangler from Kuttenberg in Bohemia, who recently received a patent for the construction of a Lancaster double gun, from which also Lefaucheux cartridges can be fired, and which is arranged in such a way that a Lancaster cartridge after being discharged is extracted from the chamber, but only when discharged, has recently come up with another very practical invention.
The same man has now constructed a new rifle, in which the locks are lodged/inserted in the stock(?), neither the lock plates nor the Schraube is visible, only the hammers
The two locks, which, as is known, consist so far of twenty-two parts, have only nine of these in the new construction, and is available with only seven on request, and both the locks and other rifle parts can be disassembled in a few moments without the use of screwdrivers and spring clamps etc.
The whole construction is very simple, solid, and it is now possible for this gunsmith, through the simplicity of his invention, to compete with every large manufacturer of guns.
These guns are already well-known by hunters here in the area.

I consider myself obliged to report of this interesting invention to the reader of the magazine.
Schrambol (possibly Schrambok) at Lestina in Bohemia on May 7, 1885.
Ignaz Ritter Rachodsky

Kind regards
Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Moose Snoot:
The only think I see is that your refer to the reader of the magazine and possibly it should be the writer of the article, Ignaz Ritter Rachodsky. Otherwise I am confused on your last paragraph.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Incredible amount of info guys. I thought I`d post a few more pictures. Hope you enjoy them.
Any other photos you`d like to see ??

And of course lastly........ estmated value?

Thanks so much on your interest, I find this an intriguing view into Bavaria. A last note....... this piece has spent it`s last 35 years in a display case, so I`m told. I Bought it by way of an auction.

Forgot to mention that the gun is in excellent mechanical condition. The triggers work smooth as glass. The original wooden ram rod is with it as well.







trigger guard

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Hello

JaDub,
That is one wonderful gun. If it has anything more to show us please post further images.

There´s only one thing wrong with the gun. It´s not mine. I wish I could see it live.

Kind regards
Peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Peter,

You`d have to travel to Denver to get your hands on it. It was very dusty when I picked it up. I just came alive when I started to clean it. I can`t fathom how much time someone must have spent designing and doing the final `carving`. Everywhere I look there`s more engraving. Notice the smooth rounded edges of the dog`s head between the barrels. The engraving isn`t just left `sharp`..........it`s all radiused. My god , how much time was spent on this gun............ and by candle light probably. It`s becoming my favorite gun. I`ll try to post a few more close-ups if you`d like.

cheers......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here are a few more photos..........

Any thoughts on value ?





Note on top of barrel the engraving spells JENIKOVE if you look close....... maybe the barrel maker ?



Top of butt plate

 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top