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I ain't no mathmatician, but it seems to me that you should be able to take the circumference of a given clay, and the speed at which it is thrown and come close with given results.

Outta curiosity, why?
 

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While I may not be a mathmatician, oldrum, I can clearly read. I know he said rpm. Now if you take a little math, using the mph of the given bird, and the circumference of the clay target, one should be able to deduce the rpm of the given target.

But, adnittedly, I am not a math whiz, and I am not the one seeking the information.
 

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My understanding is 2000- 3000 rpm dependent upon the spring tension and where the arm contacts the target at the point of release.
Please keep in mind that the targets rotation slows as the targets flight progresses; that is why you sometimes have a less than dramatic break near the end of a targets flight.
There is less target rotation thus:
1. Decreasing target area is exposed to the shot pattern and
2. Decreasing centrifugal force to throw the target fragments from the impact point.
I have used a radar gun to track the velocity on a number of targets and find the majority of them to be at about 50 fps at the "sweet spot"
Hope this Helps;
Chuck
 

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870shooter said:
I ain't no mathmatician, but it seems to me that you should be able to take the circumference of a given clay, and the speed at which it is thrown and come close with given results.
You are exactly correct. The only other variable is the efficiency of the friction between the target and the throwing arm.
olddrum said:
He said RPM, not MPH. I'd think that each type of trap would be a bit different.
RPM and MPH of the target are directly related. The only differences between traps would be due to different dynamic friction between target and arm.
870shooter said:
Now if you take a little math, using the mph of the given bird, and the circumference of the clay target, one should be able to deduce the rpm of the given target.
Right again.
VTHokiesDuckHunter said:
I don't think rotational speed and Target speed are necessarialy related.
You are mistaken.
cfoster said:
I have used a radar gun to track the velocity on a number of targets and find the majority of them to be at about 50 fps at the "sweet spot"
That would be a very sweet, and very slow, 34mph (as compared to a typical 46-49mph approaching the hoop).

To reach the NSSA's recommended radar speeds at/near the hoop the target has to exit the house at a little over 50mph. Simple calculation shows that, with 100% frictional efficiency between target and arm, the target would leave the arm spinning at close to 4,000 rpm. Since 100% efficiency is not possible, Randy's figure of 3,000 rpm at some distance from the arm seems entirely plausible.
 

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What does RPM of the bird have to do with anything? Unless I'm missing something, Bender also doesn't mention any rpm of the clay???? Thanks
 

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RPM has to do with how the target flies the more the spin(RPM) the less the target is effected by wind. Flies straighter the the distance marker. What the number is I do not know but the softer the rubber on the arm the more spin.
 

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You may also want to take a sanding block to the rubber of the arms...light swipe or two...to remove built up paint and give a little more grip to the arms. I agree that if you can get good spin on a target, it will fly better and less erratically in wind.
 

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Stackman;
Thank you for your input.
I think you and I are using a different definition for "sweet spot" and if this has caused some confusion I apologize. I have no reason to suspect your definition of 46-49mph approaching the hoop in skeet is anything but correct.
I am approaching this from a sporting clays point of view.
I would define the "sweet spot" as an area approaching the end of the transitional period in the target's flight where the target is still under the influence of the force of the trap spring yet the force of gravity has not yet exceeded the forward momentum of the target causing it to drop and accelerate.
It is at this point with most targets that they are at their slowest velocity and look the clearest and the shooter (especially a beginning shooter) has the most confidence pulling the trigger.
Fair enough?
Chuck
 

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cfoster:
The OP posted in the "Skeet Shooters" forum so I responded with NSSA's specifications of 46-49mph for the High and Low house targets as they approach the hoop.

Your description of Sporting targets is "fair enough." :)
 

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cfoster, the 46 to 49 mph measurement is closer to the speed at the house. The radar gun has a fairly wide beam and it reads the fastest speed. I have chronographed our low house targets and compared them to our radar gun and they were very close to each other. I have heard that the targets slow down 6 to 8 mph at the hoop so a radar gun is certainly not getting the speed as they near the hoop.

I did read Neal Winstons study as Randy noted and Winston did not verify 3000 fps he only stated the rpms. I think the most important thing that Winston said was that he had witnessed thousands of targets hitting the ground and none of them had ever become unstable at the lower speeds and he said he had quit worrying about spin and suggested we do the same.
 

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Customstox said:
cfoster, the 46 to 49 mph measurement is closer to the speed at the house. The radar gun has a fairly wide beam and it reads the fastest speed. I have chronographed our low house targets and compared them to our radar gun and they were very close to each other. I have heard that the targets slow down 6 to 8 mph at the hoop so a radar gun is certainly not getting the speed as they near the hoop.

I did read Neal Winstons study as Randy noted and Winston did not verify 3000 fps he only stated the rpms. I think the most important thing that Winston said was that he had witnessed thousands of targets hitting the ground and none of them had ever become unstable at the lower speeds and he said he had quit worrying about spin and suggested we do the same.
Chic

I'm not following this. Randy did state rpm's, not fps. I had also previously looked up several sources that seemed to validate 3000-4000 rpm.

By the way, while I have been to the claytargetsetting.com site before that is referenced above, today I received a warning that it may have Malware on it, so I have not revisited that site.

I do agree that spin rate in rpm is not something to be concerned about.
 

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seacilian said:
What does RPM of the bird have to do with anything? Unless I'm missing something, Bender also doesn't mention any rpm of the clay???? Thanks
Bender is from a different planet and is a skeet god in that regard, so this does not apply to him. When he looks at the leading edge of the target, the bird stops in midair for him as he pulls the trigger.

We mortals cannot see this. To him it is all in slow motion.
 
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