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Well, up to recently I'd have told you to get the Downrange Versalite wads and use either Unique or Universal, but I'm not so sure anymore that they are the correct wad. I think they are made out of too stiff of plastic. I'm getting tears and seperations in the lip of the overpowder cup. Does it effect the performance? I'm not sure, but it does seem like I get a few funny sounding shots once in a while and I do pick up peculeiar looking fired wads. They are the perfect height for use in the AAHS as well as the STSs. I like 8-1/2s if I can get them. I wouldn't use the Claybuster clone was if they were free. I've tried some of the Windjammers too. I like them, except the are an 8 petal shot cup and on my 366 thay can be a pain. I get petals folded over now and again. The Federal wad seemed to work OK too! Get a bag of the Downrange Versalites and try them, you may like them. They are just a tad shorter than the AAs and clones and as such crimp better in the HS and STS hull withoug crunching the hull body during crimping. I've heard lots of good reviews of the Dusters too.

BP
 

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Yes, I have, they are pretty spendy in these parts. I'm talking about the RXP 20. I didn't really like how it fit in the old AAs and I still have a couple 5 gal buckets of them too. Part of my decision on wads is cost, and the Remingtons run almost double the price of the Versalites, about a ten spot for a bag of 500. I gave $55 a case for the Versalites. The Windjammers came from Grafs and they were $8.?? for 500.

BP
 

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mcc1229,

Here is my favorite Skeet 20 gauge recipe:

Hull: 20 Gauge Remington STS
Shot: 7/8 oz of #8.5's
Powder: Hodgdon Universal Clays - 15.8 grains
Primer: Winchester 209
Wad: Orange Duster
FPS: 1200
PSI: 9,800 PSI

If I were using the AA hull, I would use this recipe:

Hull: 20 Gauge Winchester AA
Shot: 7/8 oz of #8.5's
Powder: Hodgdon Universal Clays - 15.5 grains
Primer: Winchester 209
Wad: Orange Duster
FPS: 1200
PSI: 10,800 PSI

I wouldn't go to lighter than 7/8 oz unless you have a recoil issue. At least if the goal is to break as many targets as you can.

Scott
 

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Is your 20 gauge average any higher than with the 28? If not, I'd go with a 3/4 oz load in front of 12.5 grains of International and a Winchester AA wad. If your 20 gauge average is higher than 28, then I would be inclined to go with Winders' loads.
 

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Case,

Yes, I have shot light 20 gauge loads in the past.

If the goal is to reduce recoil, I think they are great. If recoil is not an issue and the goal is to break as many targets as possibly at Skeet, consistently, I recommend using all the lead the rules allow.

Scott
 

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Really? And how'd you do with them?

I can break 25 straight time after time with that 11/16 oz. load as easy as I can with a one ounce 12 gauge or 7/8 oz. 20 gauge load. In fact, it's so easy it's boring.

winders said:
If the goal is to reduce recoil, I think they are great.
And I think that's just exactly what I said in mentioning the load:

Case said:
If you're interested in a light Skeet load with very little recoil and savings on shot..,
Plus the savings on shot.

Did I suggest it was an optimum load for some hotshot major world Skeet tournament?

No, I did not.

Is the topic starter too stupid to know that?

I seriously doubt it.
 

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claysmoker said:
Is your 20 gauge average any higher than with the 28? If not, I'd go with a 3/4 oz load...
Good question, and got me to thinking, so I looked it up.

Using a tubed O/U...
___________________________

20 gauge - (7/8 oz. mostly new STS's) over just my last 2 full years of NSSA minimums -
.9900 on 2700 targets and 12-100's (44.4%)
___________________________

28 gauge - (3/4 oz. mostly reloads) over those same 2 years -
.9903 on 2600 targets and 14-100's (53.8%)
___________________________

Taking into account less recoil and cheaper shells, it seems clear that the 3/4 oz. payload at least doesn't hurt performance, and in terms of percentage of 100's, there's a clear advantage for the 3/4 oz. 28. The only question for me would be if the 3/4 oz. load would perform equally well in a 20 ga. hull.
I don't have a reason to believe that it wouldn't.
 

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Case,

I shot the light loads just fine.

Since you are going to quote yourself I might as well quote myself:

I wouldn't go to lighter than 7/8 oz unless you have a recoil issue. At least if the goal is to break as many targets as you can.
Did I say you said that "it was an optimum load for some hotshot major world Skeet tournament"? No I did not. Heck, I didn't even mention you at all.

For most Skeet shooters, the more lead they shoot the more targets they break. Maybe you are the best non-registered Skeet shooter in the world and can run straight after straight all day long with a 3/4 oz 20 gauge load. But most Skeet shooters are not like that.

So, as I said earlier, I wouldn't go to lighter than 7/8 oz unless you have a recoil issue. At least if the goal is to break as many targets as you can.

Scott
 

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Mark,

The only group that carries a 28 gauge average on par with their 20 gauge average are the AAA across the board shooters. The lower the group HOA average the greater the disparity between the 20 and 28 gauge averages. The recreational shooter, in general, is not going to shoot the 28 gauge nearly as well as the 20 gauge.

Also, you know very well that virtually no AAA across the board shooter is going to shoot the 28 gauge in the 20 Gauge event. Why? Because they want the best chance to break all the targets and they know that the 20 gauge gives them that.

I completely understand shooting lighter loads when you are recoil sensitive. If I shot 12 gauge shells in my O/U, I would most likely shoot 1 oz loads. But most skeet shooters don't have recoil issues with 20 gauge 7/8 oz loads.

Why don't you come on back to the registered Skeet world and shoot the 28 gauge for the 12, 20, and 28 Gauge events?

Scott
 

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Case and Scott, I think you are both pretty savvy shooters and reloaders, and I've learned a great deal from both of you, but I would appreciate it if y'all could just let each other state their opinions without getting into a pissing match. Please?
 

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[b:21r4agn1 said:
winders[/b]":21r4agn1] The recreational shooter, in general, is not going to shoot the 28 gauge nearly as well as the 20 gauge.
Scott, I'm a recreational skeet shooter, been shooting for about 2 years now. I shoot the 28 much better than the 20. Don't know why, I just do. In fact I shoot the 28 better than I shoot the 20 or the 12. I ran straights with the 12 an 28 long before I ever got one with the 20 ga. :oops:

Now the .410, thats a different story that I won't get into now. :D
 

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Don,

That's why I put the qualifier "in general" in that sentence.

Scott
 

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winders said:
Heck, I didn't even mention you at all.
In fact, you didn't, but I suspect if I hadn't mentioned the 3/4 oz. load earlier you'd never have made the comment about any inadvisability of using less than 7/8 oz. of shot in 20 gauge loads unless recoil was an issue, which I'd already mentioned as one reason for the 3/4 oz. load.

There'd have been no logical reason at all for it even to have occurred to you if I hadn't mentioned it.

For most Skeet shooters, the more lead they shoot the more targets they break. Maybe you are the best non-registered Skeet shooter in the world and can run straight after straight all day long with a 3/4 oz 20 gauge load. But most Skeet shooters are not like that.
Nah... I'm not that good. But you've got to admit that 7/8 oz. of shot is a lot of shot. And that's all I used to shoot. And the older I got the less I liked recoil. And the more expensive shot got the less I wanted to use. So I tried the 3/4 oz. load, then the 11/16 oz. load and found that either one broke targets as easily as a 7/8 oz. load.

And those were the two reasons I gave above when I suggested my 11/16 oz. load. So... Once again I emphasize that I'd already mentioned the recoil matter and there was no reason for you to repeat it.

So, as I said earlier, I wouldn't go to lighter than 7/8 oz unless you have a recoil issue. At least if the goal is to break as many targets as you can. (my emphasis.)
Now what other goal could there possibly be? Were you suggesting someone might shoot Skeet hoping to miss some targets?

No. You were flatly insinuating that my earlier suggestion of the 3/4 or 11/16 oz. load would virtually guarantee at least a few missed targets.

Logically, there's no other conclusion to be drawn other than that's what you were doing.

claysmoker said:
Case and Scott, I think you are both pretty savvy shooters and reloaders, and I've learned a great deal from both of you, but I would appreciate it if y'all could just let each other state their opinions without getting into a pissing match. Please?
No. Say "pretty please."

I've welcomed Scott back. Now I'm just trying to make him feel truly at home here once again.
 

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winders said:
For most Skeet shooters, the more lead they shoot the more targets they break.
winders said:
If recoil is not an issue and the goal is to break as many targets as possibly at Skeet, consistently, Then I recommend using all the lead the rules allow.
Based on your advice, I recommend you shoot 1 1/8 oz. 12's, or at least 1 oz. 20's in the 12 and Doubles events.

While you're at it, you also might consider shooting your 28 in the 20 gauge events since your own 28 gauge average last year was almost 3/4 of a target better (per hundred) than the 20 gauge. :shock: By any measure, your 20 ga. average took a HUGE hit.

winders said:
Why don't you come on back to the registered Skeet world...
The "Skeet world" is not my life. Never has been. I can walk away and not pick up a gun for 3-6 months at a time, as I'm doing now. I do shoot some registered skeet.... in fact I shoot exactly as much registered skeet as I choose to shoot. If in the future I choose to shoot more, you can be assured I'll not wait for your invitation to do so. And if I feel that I'm shooting the 28 better than the 20 ga., I'll do that too, even though it will likely be contrary to your "recommendation". :roll:
 

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Mark,

If I were shooting a gas gun you can bet your a$$ I would shooting 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge loads in the 12 Gauge and Doubles events. If I shot 12 gauge shells out of my O/U, and the recoil was not too bad with my K-80, I would give it 1 1/8 oz loads a serious look.

1 oz 20 gauge loads just don't pattern any better in my tube sets than 7/8 oz loads. Yes, I tried more open chokes. If they did pattern better or gave me a larger but equally dense pattern, I would use them.

The "Why don't you come back..." comment was not inviting you back to the game, suggesting you should shoot more or less, or suggesting I have any influence over what you do or don't do. It was a rhetorical suggestion pointing out that, if you were shooting for serious scores, you would not shoot the 28 Gauge in the 20 Gauge event.

Then again, maybe you would. But no serious Skeet shooter capable of shooting a 4x4 today is going to shoot the 28 gauge in the 20 gauge event. And those are the guys that could best get away with it.

Sure, my 28 gauge average was quite a bit better than my 20 gauge average last year. But my 12 gauge average was better than my 28 gauge average. Interestingly enough, I used the 20 gauge in all the 12 Gauge events I shot. What does that say? It says I had some bad 20 Gauge events. I shoot the 28 gauge well and have tons of confidence in it. But, I would never shoot it in the 20 gauge event. I hit 350 straight targets with the 20 gauge at the World Shoot last year in the 12 Gauge and 20 Gauge events. 449/450 if you want to throw in Doubles. I have never done anything like that with the 28 gauge in competition. Even though my 20 gauge average was lower, the 20 gauge would give me a better shot at shooting a high score.

The bottom line? I am not recommending anything to you. A poster asked a question and I provided an answer with a recommendation that made sense even if Case felt it contradicted what he suggested.

Scott
 

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Case said:
You were flatly insinuating that my earlier suggestion of the 3/4 or 11/16 oz. load would virtually guarantee at least a few missed targets.
Case,

I did not insinuate anything. Let me be really clear: For most Skeet shooters, recreational and registered, shooting 3/4 oz or 11/16 oz loads in the 20 gauge versus 7/8 oz loads in the 20 gauge, would virtually guarantee more missed targets.

Scott
 
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