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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I understand the Wood On a Rizzini is perhaps better than the wood on a Beretta Silver pigeon Grade 3. But how many of you actually inspect the grain with a magnifying glass?

I'm curious what makes a Krieghoff or a Merkel so much better than a Beretta or a Browning.
Is it just the exclusivity of owning one? The scarcity?
Perhaps they shoot that little bit straighter?

I'm reading the Upland Almanac, it seems every other page is advertising one of these Guerrinis, Merkels or what have you.

Just curious, I nearly bought the Silver Pigeon Grade I, since I personally can't bring myself to spend another $1,000 on something i'm going to use and drop and scratch in the field. THen saw these advertisments.
 

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Quality of manufacture, quality of materials, exclusivity all play a part in adding cost to a gun. It gets to a point where the gun has become a piece of art. If you have the desire, you can easily spend 5 figures on engraving alone.

The only thing that will make one gun shoot better than another for you is if one of those guns fits you better. The gun that costs $30K likely shoots straight, but so does a $220 870 (unless it has a crooked choke tube :wink: ). And just because you spent $30K doesn't man you will hit even one more bird.
 

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Sometimes it's just a "feel" that sets them apart. The quality and durability are of a higher standard on a Krieghoff than a B gun but unless you shoot extremely high volumes you probably won't notice. Then there is the pride of ownership. If the aesthetics and prestige don't sell you on it then save your money unless you're getting into extremely high volume shooting. You will pay more for eye candy.

I once got to shoot a Perrazi and I shot better with it than my Ithaca O/U, which cost 1/5 of what the Perazzi sold for. That was mainly because of fit and weight. It was a step up but out of my price range. It is similar with a Krieghoff/Merkel versus a Browning/Beretta.Just my opinion, I can't prove anything.
 

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If dropping and scratching in the field is how you treat your guns, then you have made the correct choice. I could probably carry a shotgun for 40 years and not beat it up as badly as you would in a weekend! You can indeed get a servicable shotgun for a Grand, but then again, most really serious Competition guns will do more shooting in the first weekend of use than you are likley to shoot through your field gun in a lifetime, and a long lifetime at that! Amazing how long it takes to shoot up 60 boxes of shells. Unless you do indeed like nice wood, and NO you don't need a microscope to tell the difference, and If you don't like nice craftsmanship, fit, finish, style, ballance, and handeling as well as asthetics, you would be wasting your money to even think about one of the finer arms the kind you described. Buy the cheapie, you're the reason they make them too! :wink:

BP
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Burnt Powder said:
If dropping and scratching in the field is how you treat your guns, then you have made the correct choice. I could probably carry a shotgun for 40 years and not beat it up as badly as you would in a weekend! You can indeed get a servicable shotgun for a Grand, but then again, most really serious Competition guns will do more shooting in the first weekend of use than you are likley to shoot through your field gun in a lifetime, and a long lifetime at that! Amazing how long it takes to shoot up 60 boxes of shells. Unless you do indeed like nice wood, and NO you don't need a microscope to tell the difference, and If you don't like nice craftsmanship, fit, finish, style, ballance, and handeling as well as asthetics, you would be wasting your money to even think about one of the finer arms the kind you described. Buy the cheapie, you're the reason they make them too! :wink:

BP
Ouch that was pretty harsh. Well cheapie is relative no? To me $1000 is inexpensive. However 10k is not. I have friends that are still in undergrad that would think a $500 shotgun is expensive.
I meant I'd feel bad if I dropped a perazzi or a guerrini in the field. I haven't had enough experience to know if i'll drop one or not. I know whenI fish I have on an occasion or two dropped my shimano reel into the sand, or dropped my rife speargun loading and unloading it on the boat. That's what i meant.

If you accidentally ding your ferrari backing into a trash can you didnt' see it's an accident but it hurts your wallet a little more. :p
 

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to most shooters [especially hunters] the value would have to be resale---but i can think of a couple of brownings [target guns] that bring today, 225+% of what they cost new 15 years ago--even well used. same with some target winchesters, neither mentioned were considered expensive in their day.

it's supposed to be dependability, though i know guys with kreighoffs that don't put as many rounds thru theirs as i do my sx-1, and the spend more on a yearly service/updates/replacements? in two years than i have in my gun, and they sure aren't exempt from breakage.

but....whatever floats your boat.....i say pick out whichever has the dynamics you are looking for in a shooter and not worry about the joneses. if that happens to be a pump or auto and worry about reliability, shoot it a year or two---swap your fitted wood onto a new steel frame---sell the old steel/metal with new wood and keep on shooting.
 

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It's the wood, the inletting, the checkering, the fitment, the engraving, the attention to detail, the time invested, the custom features, and the goodwill associated with the brand that sets the price. If you are hard on your field guns why even consider these fancy features? Frankly, some stockmakers tell me that the crotch wood that makes an exotic stock is not as reliable as straight and even grained walnut--let alone charcoal plastic. On the other hand my father's Rem1100 from the first year of manufacture (1963?) looks like it has never left its case though it has been in field often.
 

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I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Perazzi's, Kreighoff's, etc never see field use. I've got several old "beaters" I use in the field... the higher quality guns are reserved for the clays games.
 

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Well, there are several factors involved here. I basically comes down to what you can afford and what you value. Can a highly skilled target shooter tell the difference between a Kreighoff and a Browning? You betcha. Are there folks with a lot of disposable income shooting Kreighoff's and Perazzi's that aren't good enough to tell the difference between them and a Beretta, Browning or a Huglu for that matter? Heck yeah but they have the money to look good. HEHE Or perhaps they truely do simply appreciate the fine craftsmanship and beautiful materials used in the finer guns. As someone else already stated, guns can be a fine artform. A fine side by side can be beautiful, and elegant to look at as well as being a delightful piece to hold and shoot.
 

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To the average shooter, once you get past 2 grand, there isn't any difference other than aesthetics and cost. To an advanced shooter that can squeeze every bit of performance out of a shotgun, there is some difference in quality. I'm not the kind of guy that can get more out of a $20k shotgun than a $1k shotgun, but I can definately tell the difference between my Browning and a Stoeger.
For a quality field gun that can be afforded by the common man, a B-gun with the least amount of engraving seems to be the best investment. You get the good quality, but you're not as likely to sob like a toddler if it gets scratched. For a target gun, spend the money. Your equipment should always be better than you are in that situation. You certainly don't want your shotgun to be the reason you lost.
Even though the fancy engraving and nice wood doesn't do a dang thing for shooting, as has been mentioned, it's an important part of pride of ownership. You can buy paintings and sculptures for many thousands of dollars that hang on walls and collect dust on tables. Either that, or you can get a work-of-art shotgun that you can hold in your hands. That adds the tactile aspect of it, which is something you usually don't get out of most art. In my eyes, it's a higher form of art, as it can be enjoyed on a deeper level. The fact that you can actually take it out and bust some clays or birds with it adds to it even more. Functional art.

Once it's all said and done, I'd say $2k is a suitable upper price range for a quality hunting piece. Past that, unless you're damn good, you won't be getting much more out of your shotgun.
 

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All of the Beretta over/under guns are built on the same action with the exception of the SO's which are sidelocks. All of them require a fitting for the shooter to perform best. Until you get into the EELL guns and above, there is very little hand fitting of internal parts so the most noticeable difference is in the wood and receiver finish. All of the guns below the EELL's are machine engraved, and have mass produced machine inletted stocks. The difference is in the labor hours endured building the finer grades. Much is the same with the Merkels as they have several "affordable" models. As for the other brands, I'm not as familiar with them, so I won't say.

The people who can truly afford the finer guns aren't concerned about a ding in the stock. The Ferrari analogy was nice, but the same applies there as well. The person who can truly afford one isn't worried about dings.

As for me, I will only spend what I determine to be acceptable should a gun be damaged/lost in the field. (Not literally lost, just damaged beyond repair.) It's all relative to budget.
 

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New-N-TX said:
What kind of gun are you shooting? That wood is fantastic!!!!
Just to repeat...the first pic that I posted is not a stock that I own.

The second pic is my Perazzi MX-2000 with custom, upgraded wood.

silverhawk said:
All of the Beretta over/under guns are built on the same action with the exception of the SO's which are sidelocks.
Almost....the ASE90 and its successor, the DT-10 are not the same action as the 680-series guns.
 
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