[HuntNshoot]

I've been on the Alliant wedsite and couldn't find any data for Promo. I either missed it or they haven't got it on their site yet. I've recently been bitten by the skeet bug and am looking for the most economical way to produce one ounce loads. Thanks.

 

[Curly N]

Go here and down load the manual:
http://glarp.atk.com/2005Catalogs/pdfs/ ... atalog.pdf

Print page 30.

Otherwise, it is not listed on the Alliant site, that I can find either.

Remember, THERE IS NO BUSHING CHART FOR PROMO. If you have no scales, leave it on the shelf. Or, you can buy the scales and pay for them with your savings on powder by using Promo.

 

[D L Marcum]

HuntNshoot,

Promo is an economical grade of Red Dot, and as such uses Red Dot data for reloading. It is a tad denser tha Red Dot, so the same bushings won't work, however the WEIGHT is the same.

Just pick out a Red Dot Load you like and use that data, and the stated Weight of powder, but using Promo.

DLM

 

[Case]

The load guide for Promo isn't published on Alliant's website. You'll find it here on SGW:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 150#918150

Or, you can simply use data for Red Dot, whose burn rate is identical to that of Promo.

You may need to use a different powder bushing, since Promo is slightly denser than Red Dot.

And, of course, you'll need a scale to determine that.

 

[HuntNshoot]

Thanks guys! I do have a scale and in fact have loaded shotshells for 25 years in hunting configurations. It looks as though this skeet thing will change the entire dynamic of my loading experience. Now that I'm retired I have less money available (a lot less!) and have to be careful. Guess I'll order the Promo, and some WAA12SL clones, and some Fiocchi primers--though I may have to sell my truck to buy some shot. Thanks again for the info.

 

[GCBluerock]

So here is my question????????????

Why not use Hodgdons Titewad powder which has lots of published data and bushing charts????????????

While the cost per container of Titewad is higher than the same weight container of Promo, less charge weight is used with Titewad resulting in cost savings because you use less.

It amounts to about 15 cents per box or roughly a five (5) percent savings

 

[D L Marcum]

The only good reason to EVER use Hodgdons Longshot is when you wish, (you never actually need), for extremely fast loads. (1350 to 1500 FPS). Beyond that, I wouldn't recommend that noisy crap to anyone for any reason, and I purposely avoid shooting with anyone using the eargersplitting louden-booming stuff. Nuff Sed.

DLM

 

[EyeMissum]

The only good reason to EVER use Hodgdons Longshot is when you wish, (you never actually need), for extremely fast loads. (1350 to 1500 FPS). Beyond that, I wouldn't recommend that noisy crap to anyone for any reason, and I purposely avoid shooting with anyone using the eargersplitting louden-booming stuff. Nuff Sed.

DLM

DLM. Bluerock is talking about Titewad, not Longshot. :lol:

 

[jtclays]

.

 

[D L Marcum]

GCB,
OK, my bad. Had a Sr. moment I guess.

Never have used Titewad though, and know of no-one who does. Would seem that it's not all that popular, but that's just my opinion. It may have seen much use elsewhere.

DLM

 

[GCBluerock]

I am sure glad you cleared that up. I re-read my post about 10 times trying to figure out where I interjected Longshot! Kinda like me an American made Clays a while back :wink:

Titewad is fairly popular among the 16 yard trap crowd since it is the least expensive of the powders available today.

It is also one of the powders that factory Remingtons (in 12ga) come with.

A little math will show that using Titewad is less expensive than using Promo, and there are all kinds of data and bushing charts and everything for the Titewad. It is also traditionally far more consistent batch to batch than Promo.

I dont dislike Promo, I have and do use it. But for the sake of pure cost savings Titewad appears to be king.

 

[Case]

And if I read more better, I would have seen Case already told you that! Consider it a double check on Case, who obviously doesn't need it. My bad and I stands in the corner alone, grumbling. JT (My apologies Mr. Case)

My, my...such an effusive, self-effacing retraction... A simple "Case is wonderful" would have sufficed. :lol:

 

[Slidehammer]

Why not use Hodgdons Titewad powder which has lots of published data and bushing charts????????????

Why not indeed!!

Cleaner...... Meters better...... Smells better...... Light charge weights......

I have used a lot of Titewad.... And it remains one of my two 12 gauge powders I use (after trying them all I think) Its real nitch is with light shot charges, which is getting to be a big thing as of late!

Slidehammer

 

[Burnt Powder]

I like Promo and I still have about 2 or 3 jugs left and I'm already set up for it, It's no big deal for me to figure out which bushing to use. If I don't have the one I need, I'll make it. I know not the density of Titewad, but I like the density of Promo in the hulls and wads I choose to load. Using Titewad may indeed be a cheaper deal, but that will depend on what you have to pay for it vs the Promo. My first jug was $72 and my last 3 or 4 was $78 with a few $75s in between. What does Titewad cost?
No data?? You've got to be kidding me? Promo is a direct clone grain for grain to Red Dot. I'd be hard pressed to find any powder that has a more comprehensive amount of loading data for it than Red Dot. If you have Red Dot data, you have Promo data. Seems pretty simple to me! :roll:

BP

 

[Curly N]

I like Promo and I still have about 2 or 3 jugs left and I'm already set up for it, It's no big deal for me to figure out which bushing to use. If I don't have the one I need, I'll make it. I know not the density of Titewad, but I like the density of Promo in the hulls and wads I choose to load. Using Titewad may indeed be a cheaper deal, but that will depend on what you have to pay for it vs the Promo. My first jug was $72 and my last 3 or 4 was $78 with a few $75s in between. What does Titewad cost?
No data?? You've got to be kidding me? Promo is a direct clone grain for grain to Red Dot. I'd be hard pressed to find any powder that has a more comprehensive amount of loading data for it than Red Dot. If you have Red Dot data, you have Promo data. Seems pretty simple to me! :roll:

BP

Yes, but you are mekanikally, inklined :lol:

 

[Case]

In a cost comparison of Titewad vs. Promo, using a couple of standard velocity loads in Winchester AAHS hulls as a model, Promo comes out the price winner:

Hull: 12 gauge AAHS
Shot: 1 oz.
Powder: Titewad (8 lbs. $85.95 at Recob's)
Charge: 17.1 gr.
Primer: W209
Wad: WAA12SL
Velocity: 1180 fps (close enough to 1200)
Cost per box: $0.656

Hull: 12 gauge AAHS
Shot: 1 oz.
Powder: Promo (8 lbs. $75.95 at Recob's)
Charge: 18 gr.
Primer: W209
Wad: WAA12SL
Velocity: 1200 fps
Cost per box: $0.611

I see no reason why that cost comparison would move toward Titewad's favor with other recipes.

On a practical level, of course, the two powders are so close in cost per box that it's really a toss-up.

 

[GCBluerock]

Case;
My conclusion that Hodgdon Titewad is less expensive to load was based on a difference in charge weights of 2.1 grains or more per load, with a difference of $10 / 8lbs. That would net 411 or more additional loads per 8lb container and make Hodgdon Titewad less expensive.

There are just 21 loads listed for Remington Hulls (your favorite) in the Alliant data for 1oz loads. The average charge weight is 19.0 grains for Red Dot (AKA Promo).

There are over 80 loads listed for Remington Hulls in the Hodgdon data for 1oz loads. I didn't average all 80 some loads, but you can load as little as 15 grains of Titewad and get the job done.

Load for load with all components being the same, the Promo will probably win the cheapest title.

My point was for reloaders that may not be as experianced as yourself the Hodgdon Titewad is the better deal because of the data available. Its six of one and half a dozen of the other.

 

[nastymcnarf]

Case is correct...and is the main reason I may move from Tightwad this coming year.

I use and very much like TiteWad. I've loaded THOUSANDS of rounds with it this last summer. It was/is my pet load.

Having said this...I had to move up the charge list to get the velocities that were being stated...both in my 7/8 oz and 1.0 loads. I was using closer to the 19 gr. loads to get the 1200-1250 range...my chronograph can't lie.

I stayed with it because the loads patterned great and I just smashed clays. In short...I had confidence in my loads. That is worth something. Besides...it was still cheaper than the 'Clays' I previously used. Because of this, I've been VERY unsure if I should make the swap to PROMO. With PROMO I can't just buy a pound to try it. If I don't like it...it'll sit a while. BUT!...still...I think I'll try it.

Too bad Case isn't within quick driving range of me...I could 'discount' the rest off to him if PROMO and I didn't get along.

Titewad is cheaper than my old 'Clays' powder...but PROMO would be cheaper for me yet. I think if you check it out for yourself, you'll find that you'll need about the same charge of TiteWad to get the velocities you want. The 17 gr. loads just DIDN'T get it done...about fell out of my Beretta auto if they cleared at all. Didn't matter how tight the crimp was or anything. It took close to 19 gr. to get the velocities where they needed to be for me. TiteWad is cheap-"er" but it's not all it's cracked up to be in my experience. If it was...your argument would be correct and I'd not be considering the swap.

 

[Case]

Too bad Case isn't within quick driving range of me...I could 'discount' the rest off to him if PROMO and I didn't get along.

No problem — you'd never have to make the trip.

Titewad is cheaper than my old 'Clays' powder...but PROMO would be cheaper for me yet. I think if you check it out for yourself, you'll find that you'll need about the same charge of TiteWad to get the velocities you want. The 17 gr. loads just DIDN'T get it done...about fell out of my Beretta auto if they cleared at all. Didn't matter how tight the crimp was or anything. It took close to 19 gr. to get the velocities where they needed to be for me. TiteWad is cheap-"er" but it's not all it's cracked up to be in my experience. If it was...your argument would be correct and I'd not be considering the swap.

That's pretty much the bottom-line assessment.

Here are some tables of chronograph results which will be included in a topic on light loads if I ever get it all finished.

Overall, you can see either powder is pretty much a velocity toss-up, but Promo shows slightly better standard deviations.

Velocities might be a little higher with Fiocchi primers, which I haven't chronographed yet.

3/4 oz. Promo velocities from hull/wad combinations16.9 gr. Promo, No. 29 bushing; NobelSport primer Hull Wad Average High Low Spread Std. Deviation Remington CB0178-12 1241 1248 1231 17 7 Remington XXL Pink 1243 1272 1224 48 20 AAHS CB0178-12 1227 1244 1213 31 14 AAHS XXL Pink 1237 1250 1230 20 7 Federal XXL Orange 1124 1171 1087 84 31 Federal CB2100-12 1129 1172 1074 98 36 RIO Target XXL Orange 1152 1183 1136 47 17 RIO Target CB2100-12 1174 1194 1154 40 18

3/4 oz. Titewad velocities from hull/wad combinations16.4 gr. Titewad, No. 25 bushing; NobelSport primer Hull Wad Average High Low Spread Std. Deviation Remington CB0178-12 1264 1288 1241 47 20 Remington XXL Pink 1239 1294 1178 116 40 AAHS CB0178-12 1273 1287 1248 39 14 AAHS XXL Pink 1225 1280 1179 101 38 Federal XXL Orange 1154 1203 1112 91 33 Federal CB2100-12 1194 1213 1168 45 16 RIO Target XXL Orange 1161 1207 1115 92 36 RIO Target CB2100-12 1173 1211 1134 77 30

 

[Slidehammer]

The 17 gr. loads just DIDN'T get it done...about fell out of my Beretta auto if they cleared at all. Didn't matter how tight the crimp was or anything.

nastymcnarf,

I certainly HOPE you are not judging the performance of an extremely fast burning propellant by how it cycles a gas auto!!!!!!!!

I have seen several times, the highly toted International Clays loads for 20 gauge , (very fast burning powder for the 20) that would not even cycle a gas auto!!!! And these were Hodgdon's loads at almost 11,000 psi!

My favorite Titewad load is a Remington Gun Club hull, a Fiocchi 616 primer, 16.2grs of Titewad, a WW AA 12L wad (gray) and 15/16oz of shot. They average 1197fps over my chronograph which has been cross referenced enough to know it is correct.... At least as close as you can get for a home unit. So I'd trust my readings over yours...... Sorry.

Everyone please use what you want. Some people still heat with coal while others use cleaner fuel...

Slidehammer