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i have read tons on the baikal o/u. good and bad. but i have read very little as far as complaints go with the condor. i have the baikal in a 12ga, and the condor in a 20ga. both have good and bad points. for a field gun, i feel they are both more than adequate, with the condor being lighter, 12 or 20ga. the baikal seems a little heavier duty, but not as balanced. yes, i know that most people on the board have no use for o/u under $500 new, but that's not what i'm getting at. why is there such a love/hate for the baikal, but not the condor? just something to fill a windy night with.
 

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I have second-hand experience with Baikal/Spartan doubles. I'm not impressed. I have no experience with the Condor, therefore I can't comment.
 

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We dont get the Condor over here, we only see the 2000s/a, which although relatively unknown at the mo is a decent, cheap gun.

Over here any Baikal is just a cheap, last choice gun when there are no other choices.

Admittedly we dont see the same selection of Baikals that you guys do, but that is because there is no market for them over here.

Its funny really as Baikal seems popular in the states, over here they are not something that most people would admit to owning.

They are regarded as the cheapest of cheap crap over here and most guns seen on sale are old. I haven't seen a new Baikal for years.

I've heard that the semi autos are quite reliable but I've never seen one.

Leeboy
 

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I haven't owned either but have been around and even fired enough of both at the range to at least get an impression. Of the two, I would take the Baikal/Spartan over the Stoeger condor any day of the week. The B/S has a rather chunky fence post feel and the bearing surfaces of the early ones were very coarse and seemed uneven which made for great difficulty opening them, but they did go "BANG" every time the trigger was pulled. The later Baikals seem to be better in the finish department though that could also be just the building those particular models came from. As for barrel convergence, i don't know as I never shot them to determine this. From my personal use, limited though it may be, it didn't seem to be overly off kilter in the handful of guns I've shot. At least my scores did not fall off a ledge as they sometimes do with a gun that doesn't shoot where its pointed. I feel the Baikals are the modern day equivalent of the Savage/Stevens 311 shotguns; very servicable guns that should last a long time without undue problems.
The Condors, I feel, are much poorer in quality. I have seen about every problem with them on the range and they are not all that common in these parts in that venue. Double firing, one or the other barrel not firing, triggers not setting, safety not disengaging, barrel selector not working, and barrel "convergence" being off as much as 10" at 16 yards (of the 8 Condors that I have seen shot for convergence, 5 were at least 6" off at 16 yards) are some of what I have seen. I saw them shot for barrel convergence before I ever had the opportunity to shoot one and saw no reason to mess with my mind (not to mention waste money on shells and targets) by shooting them. They do feel a bit more "lively" than the early Baikals but that is not much to brag about.
 

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Todd,

From what you read on this site, there appears to be more Baikals out there than Stoegers, therefore they get more exposure to comments. Also, Baikal owners seem to be in a higher state of denial over quality issues, thereby contributing to additional chatter from both supporters and detractors. If the Stoeger was submitted to as much talk and the owners acted or reacted the same way as Baikal owners do, I think you would see "equal opportunity ripping". Both guns have their uses....some say as a utility hunting gun (probably the most accurate), some say as a target gun (probably the least accurate) and others say they make dandy tomato plant stakes (probably funny to some and insulting to others such as Quickshot). Anyway, that's my short take.
 

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The Stoeger Condor is a cheap POS, a sorry excuse for a shotgun and no one in their right mind would ever buy one. If it's possible, it's even worse than the Baikal/Spartan.

Feel better, Todd?
 

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JOYtheSTUDmuffin said:
i believe the baikal's have been around longer as the condor has only been out for a while. not sure then the condor was first introduced, but baikal has been around for a long time
The company that Stoeger imports the condor from Brazil is the same company that made / makes the Bioto. You can get a lot of old info on them...

Smitty
 

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SS said:
some say as a utility hunting gun...
That's what my EAA Baikal IZH27 is for. Doesn't hurt my feel goods or my feel pretties any to get any mud or anything else on it. It goes bang when I pull the bang switch and I've never had any convergence issues with mine. And for a short while, before I bought my XS Skeet that I no longer have, the IZH was my first skeet gun. I shot the hell out of it for a couple of months--close to 20 boxes a week. In the beginning, you see, I was severely addicted to skeet....
 

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"I feel the Baikals are the modern day equivalent of the Savage/Stevens 311 shotguns; very serviceable guns that should last a long time without undue problems."
Good analogy.
I don't own the O/U; I do have the IZH-43 SXS. I've had it for years and have no complaints.
Pete
 

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Darkgael: I don't think the Spartans are even close to the 311, especially he older one, in workmanship or reliability.. Those 311s last several generations of shooters, I doubt the Spartans (the ones that work) will last 5 or 10 years.. The Bakail makers are not so stupid as to make a gun for that price, that would last a lifetime.. They make them to last a few years and then junk them.. They have to secure an unendig marlet..Bushrod
 

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Leeboy said:
Over here any Baikal is just a cheap, last choice gun when there are no other choices.Leeboy
I've been sprung! Okay I admit to having a Baikal lying in the back of the cabinet. It gets used by novices for learning and as a loaner for corporate days. Shoots okay, gets lubricated with wet mud, used to prop the car when changing a wheel, it doesn't matter if it gets dropped down a mine shaft and sure it looks like it was made in a big hurry by an orang utan who needed to pee. But it's indestructible, and according to my gunsmith they're less trouble than almost anything else he sees.

They're Baikals not Breakals. Let's be fair here.
 

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I have the SPR310 in 16 gauge and cannot see anything wrong with the gun. Maybe a little heavy for a 16, but no heavier then my Winchester SX2 that I carried for years. Much better machining then my Savage FoxBSE that I bought years ago and cannot even use as the ejectors don't fit correct. Had them fixed twice and they still fit lousy.
 

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For some folks the very idea of a $500 O/U or SxS for any purpose is an abomination and they will slam your intelligence at every turn for even mentioning it.

That aside, I think it's mainly a numbers game, Baikals being more common than Stoegers and now having Remington behind them. Some Baikal owners are adamant about their choice and may give their doubles a bit more credit than they're due. For the record, I own a Baikal O/U in 20ga and am very happy with it for the shooting I do. The few Stoeger doubles I've seen seemed crudely finished compared to Baikals. But the few Stoeger owners I know are hunters who don't talk much about their guns they just shoot them, and keep shooting them year after year.
 

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New_Geezer said:
The few Stoeger doubles I've seen seemed crudely finished compared to Baikals.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I...
But....
You mean....

I honestly don't know where to start...
 

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Yah, Yah, I know where you're going, but it's true.

And for all the crap Baikals take for their finish, I have seen some that were very nice right off the shelf--mine for example.

Believe it or not

Funny I was just visiting your site. Pretty country. I originally hail from Bourne, Mass. Lived just up the street from the Cape Cod Canal
 
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